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Subject: Re: More information + a couple of diagrams

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 15:45:29 10/08/00

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On October 07, 2000 at 21:45:03, Vincent Lejeune wrote:

>On October 07, 2000 at 19:32:18, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On October 07, 2000 at 15:16:17, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>>
>>>The other controversial positon:
>>>
>>>[D]8/1k6/p4p2/2p2P2/p1P2P2/2P5/P1K5/8 w - -
>>>
>>>Kc1 is analysed using the 'theory of corresponding squares', something I don't
>>>really understand :-)  I haven't analysed this one at all, I will just quote the
>>>main variation:
>>
>>i have wasted a full evening to go to a meeting where the writers
>>about the 'corresponding square' theory were there.
>>
>>it's all big nonsense. the problem is to figure out what the corresponding
>>squares are. it's like saying: "find best move M and play perfect
>>chess". Now the problem is to find move M. So is the problem to
>>find the corresponding squares. There is no algorithm for it at all.
>>After wasting hours of talk to the authors who themselves aren't strong
>>chessplayers at all, they couldn't give any algorithm for it, and it
>>all appeared to come down to how well you can define squares as being
>>the corresponding square!
>>
>>>1.Kc1! Kc7 2.Kd1! Kd7 3.Ke1 Kc7 4.Kf2 Kd8 5.Ke2 Ke8 6.Kd3 Kd7 7.Ke3 Kd6 8.Ke4
>>>"(forcing the pawn to advance)" a3 9.Kd3 a5 10.Kc2! a4 "The posiiton on the
>>>Q-side is blocked; a quadratic system with non-ambiguous rear (711) now
>>>operates."  Go figure!  11.Kc2! Ke7 12.Kd3 Kc6 13.Ke2 Kd6 14.Kf2 Kd7 15.Ke3 Ke7
>>>16.Kf3 and wins
>>
>>that's 16 moves. I'm searching 40 plies. that's 20 moves. So i see
>>4 moves deeper as this. Also i have made  afew moves and then also searched
>>40 plies. that's like 23 ply in the diagram position. So obviously this
>>trick isn't the problem here!
>>
>>>I didn't play thru. that variation, but clearly its at least 31ply and white
>>>hasn't even captured a pawn yet!  Let me see, finished with white K on f3, so it
>>>needs another 3 moves at the very least to capture c5 so this problem looks like
>>>it is at the VERY least 34ply deep and probably more.
>
>
>Finding "corresponding squares" is all about zugzwang, that's may be why your
>program don't find it ...

i don't nullmove in pawnendgame, so it's peanut to see,
but that's not the point exactly. what i said was:
corresponding squares are hard to define.

suppose i say: "black is better because score is less as zero."

I call this the 'diepeveen-black' theory
and write big crap about this theory, but i forget to mention
how i figure out the score is less as zero.

Basicaly i've shifted the problem to finding the score. That's
what happens with corresponding squares too.

They could be dutch scientists!

>>I searched if i count the moves made first with it 44 plies or something
>>and don't see a win at all.
>>
>>>cheers,
>>>Peter



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