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Subject: Re: move in *zero* seconds?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:40:55 10/09/00

Go up one level in this thread


On October 09, 2000 at 12:45:20, Charles Milton Ling wrote:

>On October 09, 2000 at 11:50:17, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 09, 2000 at 11:19:18, Oliver Roese wrote:
>>
>>>On October 09, 2000 at 10:06:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 09, 2000 at 00:42:38, Oliver Roese wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 08, 2000 at 22:14:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 08, 2000 at 12:32:27, Oliver Roese wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 08, 2000 at 09:35:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On October 08, 2000 at 09:28:44, Mike S. wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Should programs be able, or be allowed, to move in *zero* seconds of thinking
>>>>>>>>>time?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don't think so (except when the pondering prepared for an opponent's move
>>>>>>>>>which is actually played), but I'd like to hear what others, especially blitz
>>>>>>>>>players or users who have programs play blitz/lightning at servers, think about
>>>>>>>>>this. Is it fair, to make series of moves in zero seconds?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Probably, long sequences of very low quality moves in engine matches could be
>>>>>>>>>avoided also, by forcing a minimum of 1 second (i.e. as a common standard in
>>>>>>>>>computer chess programs).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>M.Scheidl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Programs only move in zero seconds in three cases that I know of.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>1.  book move.  The assumption is that someone/something has already spent
>>>>>>>>a lot of time in choosing these moves.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2.  forced move (only legal move).  There is no reason to search at all if
>>>>>>>>you have no choice, legally.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>3.  Pondering.  These moves are not really made in zero seconds.  It just so
>>>>>>>>happens that all the calculation was done while waiting on the opponent.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Humans do exactly the same thing.  I have seen them make several 0-second moves
>>>>>>>>in a row.  I am not sure why you think this is a problem?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>He.
>>>>>>>It _is_ a problem.
>>>>>>>If you dont think so, let me play a reasonable amount of games with 2 12
>>>>>>>controls and i am happy to expect some win of ratingpoints.
>>>>>>>Thank you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oliver
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'll be more than happy to let you try.  Just tell me when, what handle you
>>>>>>will be using, and which server you want to play on.
>>>>>
>>>>>I accept your challenge.
>>>>>My timezone is europe/berlin, which is currently = GMT + 2.
>>>>>I am best available on saturday or sunday or if that not fits after 17:00, my
>>>>>timezone.
>>>>>My handle on fics is "roese".
>>>>>I would suggest 4 games with 2 12 controls.
>>>>>I expect to loose most of them, but hope to win a few ratingpoints nevertheless.
>>>>>
>>>>>Oliver
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>For this Saturday, it will have to be late, US time.  As I have mentioned
>>>>previously, my daughter is getting married this Saturday, 5PM CST, at my
>>>>house.  We will be tied up well beyond that.  I will probably be on late
>>>>Saturday, or perhaps around 9PM on Sunday evening...
>>>
>>>Best wishes and a lucky future to your daughter!
>>>Keep in mind, that i dont intend to hurt anyone. If i did, i apologize for it.
>>>
>>>Oliver
>>
>>
>>Didn't insult me one bit, so no apology necessary.  We have had other such
>>challenges here in the past (one was someone thinking their anti-computer
>>strategy would produce more wins vs Crafty than rating differences would
>>suggest.  We played > 50 games before he finally got to a drawn position and
>>we abandoned the match.)
>
>Was that the "Patzer Challenge" I remember?  And he did manage to draw one
>game?!
>
>Charley


Yes it was, in fact.  I had forgotten the name.  He was playing as a "guest"
which was a minor problem, as if either he or crafty got disconnected, the
game was not saved for later continuation.  I believe he reached what was
probably a drawn ending, maybe KRP vs KR with his king in the right place to
draw, but I am not certain.  I want to say it happened around game 75-77, but
I am not sure.  So probably one draw out of 100 games would have been the
result had it continued to 100.




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