Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:40:55 10/09/00
Go up one level in this thread
On October 09, 2000 at 12:45:20, Charles Milton Ling wrote: >On October 09, 2000 at 11:50:17, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 09, 2000 at 11:19:18, Oliver Roese wrote: >> >>>On October 09, 2000 at 10:06:35, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On October 09, 2000 at 00:42:38, Oliver Roese wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 08, 2000 at 22:14:45, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 08, 2000 at 12:32:27, Oliver Roese wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On October 08, 2000 at 09:35:04, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On October 08, 2000 at 09:28:44, Mike S. wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Should programs be able, or be allowed, to move in *zero* seconds of thinking >>>>>>>>>time? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I don't think so (except when the pondering prepared for an opponent's move >>>>>>>>>which is actually played), but I'd like to hear what others, especially blitz >>>>>>>>>players or users who have programs play blitz/lightning at servers, think about >>>>>>>>>this. Is it fair, to make series of moves in zero seconds? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Probably, long sequences of very low quality moves in engine matches could be >>>>>>>>>avoided also, by forcing a minimum of 1 second (i.e. as a common standard in >>>>>>>>>computer chess programs). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks, >>>>>>>>>M.Scheidl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Programs only move in zero seconds in three cases that I know of. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>1. book move. The assumption is that someone/something has already spent >>>>>>>>a lot of time in choosing these moves. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>2. forced move (only legal move). There is no reason to search at all if >>>>>>>>you have no choice, legally. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>3. Pondering. These moves are not really made in zero seconds. It just so >>>>>>>>happens that all the calculation was done while waiting on the opponent. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Humans do exactly the same thing. I have seen them make several 0-second moves >>>>>>>>in a row. I am not sure why you think this is a problem? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>He. >>>>>>>It _is_ a problem. >>>>>>>If you dont think so, let me play a reasonable amount of games with 2 12 >>>>>>>controls and i am happy to expect some win of ratingpoints. >>>>>>>Thank you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Oliver >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I'll be more than happy to let you try. Just tell me when, what handle you >>>>>>will be using, and which server you want to play on. >>>>> >>>>>I accept your challenge. >>>>>My timezone is europe/berlin, which is currently = GMT + 2. >>>>>I am best available on saturday or sunday or if that not fits after 17:00, my >>>>>timezone. >>>>>My handle on fics is "roese". >>>>>I would suggest 4 games with 2 12 controls. >>>>>I expect to loose most of them, but hope to win a few ratingpoints nevertheless. >>>>> >>>>>Oliver >>>> >>>> >>>>For this Saturday, it will have to be late, US time. As I have mentioned >>>>previously, my daughter is getting married this Saturday, 5PM CST, at my >>>>house. We will be tied up well beyond that. I will probably be on late >>>>Saturday, or perhaps around 9PM on Sunday evening... >>> >>>Best wishes and a lucky future to your daughter! >>>Keep in mind, that i dont intend to hurt anyone. If i did, i apologize for it. >>> >>>Oliver >> >> >>Didn't insult me one bit, so no apology necessary. We have had other such >>challenges here in the past (one was someone thinking their anti-computer >>strategy would produce more wins vs Crafty than rating differences would >>suggest. We played > 50 games before he finally got to a drawn position and >>we abandoned the match.) > >Was that the "Patzer Challenge" I remember? And he did manage to draw one >game?! > >Charley Yes it was, in fact. I had forgotten the name. He was playing as a "guest" which was a minor problem, as if either he or crafty got disconnected, the game was not saved for later continuation. I believe he reached what was probably a drawn ending, maybe KRP vs KR with his king in the right place to draw, but I am not certain. I want to say it happened around game 75-77, but I am not sure. So probably one draw out of 100 games would have been the result had it continued to 100.
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