Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 07:24:09 10/11/00
Go up one level in this thread
On October 11, 2000 at 05:29:40, Ed Schröder wrote: >On October 10, 2000 at 19:13:13, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 10, 2000 at 18:23:33, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >> >>>On October 10, 2000 at 18:00:58, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On October 10, 2000 at 15:57:36, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>But moderators are not here to teach lessons. This was Ed's point, and he had >>>>>one. >>>>> >>>>>On the other hand, Bruce had a point too when he said that Ed should run for >>>>>moderator. Moderating well is easier to advice than to do. >>>>> >>>>>Enrique >>>>> >>>> >>>>OK. Lets start with the definition of "moderator" according to Webster's: >>>> >>>> 1 : one who arbitrates : MEDIATOR >>>> 2 : one who presides over an assembly, meeting, or >>>> discussion: as a : the presiding officer of a Presbyterian >>>> governing body b : the nonpartisan presiding officer of a >>>> town meeting c : the chairman of a discussion group >>>> >>>>1. Is a good description of moderator at times. >>>> >>>>2. Is a far better one. And that would be the one that fits best, here at >>>>CCC. It would seem perfectly normal to tell someone that they have stepped >>>>over the bound in choosing poor subject lines. That is what the chairman of >>>>a discussion group ought to do, IMHO. Because proper subject lines clearly >>>>makes the discussions more productive. >>> >>>We made a charter and elected a troika to enforce it. Then we called moderators >>>the members of this troika, no matter what the Webster has to say about it. >>> >>>So: moderators take care of avoiding personal attacks and off-topics, that's >>>all. >>> >>>You may find headers confusing and say so, but it is by no means a moderation >>>issue. >> >> >>I just happen to disagree. Making things run smoothly _is_ a moderator >>issue as that is what moderators are here for. And suggesting that subjects >>be chosen with reasonable accuracy is neither an attempt to usurp member >>priviliges nor curtail their freedom of posting. >> >> >>This is _not_ an issue about whether the poster's posts were inappropriate or >>should be deleted. It was an issue about _everybody_ else's right to be able >>to selectively choose which posts they want to read. If everybody follows the >>"world cup" approach, we could simply delete the subject line, number each >>thread sequentially, and go from there. It would be inconvenient to the max, >>of course. And the inconvenience isn't on the "poster's shoulders" it is on >>_everbody's_ shoulders. >> >>That was why Bruce and a couple of others raised the issue here, and it was >>why a couple more raised the issue via moderator email. And it was why I >>posted the simple request to choose more accurate subject lines. >> >>I have moderated several "things" before. From debates, to message boards, to >>email lists, and this is not an uncommon thing to have to do... to guide the >>participants to make things better for everybody. He probably didn't even >>realize how confusing those subject lines were until someone pointed it out. >>And a few of us did without being insulting, threatening or overbearing. I >>don't quite see what the 'uproar' is all about, considering the very little that >>was done... > > > >I am not your student Bob and neither is CCC. That was the meaning of my >one-liner and I am sure you got the point. Acting dominate only forces a >reaction which I softly did with my one-liner. Calling for an explanation >while you know the answer only keeps this subject going on. I disagree with line 1. A "moderator" _is_ a teacher of sorts. They teach what is acceptable and what is not, by their actions in deleting posts, issuing warnings, posting "please stop" posts and so forth. Including "please choose a better subject line." Teachers don't just stand in front of a class. I learned a lot from Slate and Thompson, years ago. > >My opinion: a moderator should not interfere in peanuts issues especially >not when things are already solved between CCC members. Again, I didn't interfere. Check Webster's. I didn't prevent any post from being written, I didn't delete any old post. I didn't demand that a poster change the way he writes things. A "suggestion" can _not_ be interfering, if it doesn't limit a poster in _any_ way whatsoever, except to ask for a more accurate subject line. Interfere -> hinder. How exactly does asking someone to choose a reasonable subject "hinder" them from posting what they want? > >About me being a moderator: I don't think criticism is so bad and if well >meant (and I do) criticism has the potential to benefit and improve so I >like to stick in this role when there is a need for, which I found justified >in this case. Remember my role in founding this forum, CCC has a special >in my heart and if things IMO go the wrong way I like to say it. > >Calling this "uproar" is beyond the truth and you know it. I said your way >of moderating worries me and in this spirit I have argued in the hope my >criticism will lead till something positive. > "uproar" is a "loud commotion". This has _definitely_ been that. Not what you wrote, particularly. But the fact that this particular discussion has been quite long and involved. IE other things I would _like_ to see would be: 1. If, in the middle of a thread, the topic changes, then the subject should be changed. 2. (NT) posts be completely discontinued. A "one-liner" is not worth the trouble to download and view. We don't need "attaboys" and the like. Nor do we need "I agree". If we want to do that, let's have tim add a counter to each post, labeled "I agree". You could click that and everyone would see the counter when they see the subject line, without downloading _anything_, which is what an empty post really is. 3. non-computer chess posts -> general chess forum, not here. Why "blend"? I think those would make CCC better, and would not limit an individual's ability to post whatever he wants. It might dictate where he posts it, or how he identifies it, but the "body" of a post is 100% free format in terms of subject, presentation, content, and anything else.
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