Author: Bruce Moreland
Date: 10:16:55 10/15/00
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On October 15, 2000 at 07:35:40, Thorsten Czub wrote: >On October 15, 2000 at 04:04:05, Bruce Moreland wrote: > >Thank you for your attention. > >first: >it was not my idea to insult somebody (whom ?!) >but to keep the track on the thing i have seen, because >jeroen put my nose into it. > >>I think you work too hard to draw an artificial distinction. > >really. hm. i thought that these kind of moves >played by chess programs are rare. What I mean is that I think that if you showed Bob that there was a percentage in it, he would try to create a speculative attacker. >i know ferret is different. i remember when ferret attacked >fritz in paderborn, and fritz had no idea what is happening to it. >it evaluated famous 0.00 or arround 0.00 and ferrets score increased. >and when the attack was there, when it saw the stuff, it was too late. Ferret is screwed up. That was an excellent game, and I'm still happy about it a year and a half later, but I'm also responsible for the game with Hiarcs in the same tournament. The program played like it has no eval function, making moves that would seem to indicate that it is missing obvious eval terms, while I know that those terms are there. I was puzzled by Fritz' eval too. But if I had to guess, based upon a somewhat hazy memory, the terms that won that game for my program are pretty simple. It liked having the central pawn duo, and it liked cramping black onto the back rank. I have a lot of terms in Ferret, so many that it probably gets confused and does the opposite sometimes. But the level of general knowledge isn't sophisticated. I'm willing to trade some depth for eval and for smart extensions, but I don't think I'm doing a particularly good job. >yes yes yes. i will not attack you bruce. you "indicated" to be a friend :-)) I would hope that even if we were on the exact opposite of this issue that we could still learn from each other. >i have the same feelings towards CSTal. >it makes fun. i am sure ferret plays also not that boring. but only >YOU know since we don't have the chance to see ferret play that often. I had it on ICC for a few days ago, and played 20 or 30 games with crafties and things claiming to be automatic Tigers and pretty much anything that would play, and didn't do well. A lot of them claim to be running on 433 mhz machines, and if that's the case I'm screwed, because they played better than that. >>Assuming that the sacrifice is accepted, 45. a5 seems easy to find, but I wonder >>what would have happened had black tried to keep lines closed with 45. ... b5, >>which is also possible for a program to find. > >it could answer 45..b5 with 46.Qb4 (+1.40) >main-line: 46...Rd5 47.a6 Qf6 48.Qc3 Qe6 49.Rc1 Qc8 50.Qb3 Rxc6 51.Qxd5 Rxc1 >52.Qxe5+ Ka8 53.Qxb5 Rc6 54.Bd4 Rxa6 >computed on a k6-400. >feel free to change a black move where you want. Mine doesn't think white is winning the final position, but something interesting about this whole thing is that there are lots of places for either side to vary. My bet is on the rook with perfect play, but in practical play there are lots of ways for black to die quickly. I am looking on this with a crusty computer, but I think there are more tries for black right away. 45. ... b5 46. Qb4 Ka8 47. Qxb4 Qe7 The pawn can be given back right away, in exchange for some open lines and attempts to counter-pressure. That's very vague but that's the best I can do given that one of my kids is going to start yelling at me in a few minutes. There are other points of divergence, too, black can play ... Qf5 on moves 46 or 47 I think. White has interesting tricks with Bb6, and black can sacrifice the exchange back in some lines, and it's possible that black can whip something up by attacking on the first rank and/or down the g-file. I spent some time on this last night when I wrote my first post, and a little more now. It's an interesting position, and I think it was a creative idea to go into it. What I can never tell when I see these is if I'm seeing an abstract masterpiece or a painting by a kid. And whether or not it makes a difference is an open issue in both cases. bruce
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