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Subject: Re: Q5T sticks to old paradigm Re: typical..

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:43:39 10/15/00

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On October 15, 2000 at 02:26:43, Eelco de Groot wrote:

One quick note.  In Crafty, you used "analysis mode". That has _nothing_
to do with how crafty would play in a real game.  Using this mode disables
the asymmetric king safety code completely.  While playing in a _real_
game, Crafty's king safety would be vastly different...





>On October 14, 2000 at 16:15:17, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>
>>[Event "Open Dutch CC 2000"]
>>[Site "Leiden NED"]
>>[Date "2000.10.14"]
>>[Round "02"]
>>[White "Tiger"]
>>[Black "Nimzo 8"]
>>[Result "1-0"]
>>[ECO "D20"]
>>
>>1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e4 Nf6 4.e5 Nd5 5.Bxc4 Nb6 6.Bb3 Nc6 7.Ne2 Bf5
>>8.Nbc3 e6 9.a3 Qd7 10.O-O Be7 11.Be3 O-O-O 12.Rc1 f6 13.exf6 gxf6
>>14.Na4 Nd5 15.Bc4 Na5 16.Ba2 Bg4 17.Nac3 Nxc3 18.Rxc3 Kb8 19.f3 Bh5
>>20.b4 Nc6 21.b5 Na5 22.Qa4 b6 23.Nf4 Bf7 24.Rfc1 Bd6 25.Nd3 Rhg8
>>26.Nc5 Bxc5 27.dxc5 e5 28.Bxf7 Qxf7 29.cxb6 cxb6 30.Qc2 Qg6 31.Qa2 f5
>>32.Kh1 f4 33.Bg1 h5 34.Qe2 Qf6 35.a4 h4 36.h3 Qg5 37.R1c2 Rd7
>>38.Qe1 Rdg7 39.Qe4 Rd7 40.Qe2 Rgd8 41.Qe1 Qe7 42.Qe4 Qg5
>>
>>Here the thing begins !
>>Rc6 is an easy move for Gambit-Tiger. It KNOWS that these kind
>>of moves are playable. and it gives the rook to make the bishop
>>on g1 active.
>>no search-based chess program can see this IMO.
>>this is the paradigm-shift.
>>
>>gambit-tiger believes that this move could make it.
>>it is not KNOWING it. it trusts the evaluations and the
>>knowledge it has.
>>
>>thats chris whittingtons way. here you see christophe
>>walking in the foot-steps of chris...
>>
>>leaving the hyatt-paradigm.
>>
>>is there any chess program playing Rc6 ?
>>
>>brilliant. i hope more will follow.
>>because this steps into a new quality in computerchess.
>>the moment when chess programs BELIEVE !!!! instead of knowing.
>>or seeing in the tree.
>>
>>
>>43.Rc6 Nxc6
>>44.bxc6 Rc7 45.a5 bxa5 46.Qe2 a4 47.Qb5+ Ka8 48.Qxa4 Qf6 49.Qa5 Qe7
>>50.Re2 Rdc8 51.Rxe5 Qg7 52.Qe1 a6 53.Qe2 Rxc6 54.Re7 Qc3 55.Kh2 Qb4
>>56.Ra7+ Kb8 57.Qe5+ R8c7 58.Qh8+ Rc8 59.Qxh4 Rc1 60.Bf2 R1c6
>>61.Qg5 R8c7 62.Qg8+ Rc8 63.Qg7 R8c7 64.Qh8+ Rc8 65.Qe5+ R8c7 66.h4 Rc2
>>67.Bd4 R2c4 68.Qe8+ Rc8 69.Qe4 R8c6 70.Rd7 a5 71.Be5+ Ka8 72.Rd8+ Ka7
>>73.Qh7+ Ka6 74.Rb8 Rb6 75.Ra8+ Kb5 76.Qd7+ Rcc6 77.Bc7 Qe1 78.Re8 Qxh4+
>>79.Kg1 Qf6 80.Re5+ Kc4 81.Bxb6 Qxe5 82.Qxc6+ Kb3 83.Qe4 Qa1+
>>84.Kf2 Qb2+ 85.Qe2 Qxe2+ 86.Kxe2 a4 87.Kd2 a3 88.Ba5 a2 1-0
>>
>>typical for this forum that nobody registers.
>>
>>i guess the nimzo-team has registered it.
>>maybe chrilly himself, when he was in leiden knows about.
>
>
>Q5T would not have played Tiger's courageous exchange sac. With Black it would
>have accepted the Rook but not played 45. ..bxa5. After 45. ..b6-b5 it still
>thinks Black is a little bit ahead. But I wonder if White can't play 46.a6 then?
>And, what line Tiger expected after 45. a5? Should Black have lost the game
>after b6-b5? I'm not totally convinced...
>
>But, true, Gambit Tiger is really a different animal! Its King Safety routines
>must be very different from other programs. Crafty would play like Nimzo 45.
>..bxa5 seeing a slight plus for Black, half a pawn. If you enter 45. ..b5 or 45.
>..bxa5 Crafty is even more pessimistic to almost minus one pawn for White. My
>apologies for the bean-counting part of this message!
>
>Regards, Eelco
>
>Rebel Engine for ECTool. (c) Ed Schröder
>
>Engine version   :  REBEL CENTURY 2
>Rebel personality :  "Q5T Experimental"
>Opening book file :  REBEL.MVS
>Hash table size  :  28 MB
>Analysis mode   :  Analyzing next move
>Refresh interval : 500 ms
>
>Last Move : 45.a5 (Black to play)
>
>37:53  16.00  0.12  22..Qd8 23.Rxb4 dxe3 24.fxe3
>00:00  05.01  1.22  45..b5 46.Rc5 a6 47.Rxe5 Qg3
>00:00  06.00  0.80  45..b5 46.Qe2 Rd5 47.Bc5 a6 48.Bb6
>00:00  07.00  0.51  45..b5 46.Qe2 a6 47.Bb6 Rd6 48.Bxc7+ Kxc7 49.g4 Rxc6
>00:01  08.00  0.51  45..b5 46.Qe2 a6 47.Bb6 Rd6 48.Bxc7+ Kxc7 49.g4 Rxc6
>00:03  09.00  0.05  45..b5 46.Qe2 Rd5 47.Bb6 Rd6 48.Bxc7+ Kxc7 49.Rc5+ Rxc6
>50.Qxb5 Rxc5
>00:17  10.00  0.20  45..b5 46.Qb4 Rd5 47.Qb3 Qd8 48.Rc5 Rxc5 49.Bxc5 Rg7
>50.Qxb5+ Ka8
>00:33  11.00  0.05  45..b5 46.Qe2 a6 47.Bb6 Rd6 48.Bxc7+ Kxc7 49.Qe1 Rxc6 50.Rd2
>01:26  12.00  0.23  45..b5 46.Qb4 Rd5 47.Rc5 Rxc5 48.Qxc5 Qf6 49.Qxb5+
>04:03  13.00  0.00  45..b5 46.Qb4 Rd5 47.Rc5
>20:32  14.00  0.31  45..b5 46.Qb4 Rd5 47.Rc5 Rg7 48.Qxb5 Ka8 49.Qb2 Rxc5
>50.Bxc5+
>
>middle-game phase
>
>Crafty v17.11
>
>              puzzling over a move to ponder.
>              clearing hash tables
>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>Black(45): bxa5 [pondering]
>              clearing hash tables
>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 30.00 (3:00)
>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>Black(45): learn=0
>book learning disabled
>result learning disabled
>position learning disabled
>Black(45): analyze
>              clearing hash tables
>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 30.00 (3:00)
>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>                7     1.66   0.93   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Qf6 48. Qb5+ Ka8 49. Rc5 Rxc6 50. Rxe5
>                7->   2.18   0.93   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Qf6 48. Qb5+ Ka8 49. Rc5 Rxc6 50. Rxe5
>                8     2.97   0.91   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Ka8 48. Qa6 Qg6 49. Rc4 Rxc6 50. Qxa7#
>                8->   3.79   0.91   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Ka8 48. Qa6 Qg6 49. Rc4 Rxc6 50. Qxa7#
>                9     8.19   0.91   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Ka8 48. Qa6 Qg6 49. Rc4 Rxc6 50. Qxa7#
>                9->   9.52   0.91   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Ka8 48. Qa6 Qg6 49. Rc4 Rxc6 50. Qxa7#
>               10    21.69   0.70   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Kc8
>                                    48. Qa6+ Kd8 49. Qa5 Qf6 50. Bxa7 Rxc6
>               10->  30.25   0.70   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Kc8
>                                    48. Qa6+ Kd8 49. Qa5 Qf6 50. Bxa7 Rxc6
>               11    54.42   0.56   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Kc8
>                                    48. Qa6+ Kd8 49. Qb5 Qf5 50. Rc5 Qc8
>                                    51. Qa5
>               11->   1:19   0.56   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Kc8
>                                    48. Qa6+ Kd8 49. Qb5 Qf5 50. Rc5 Qc8
>                                    51. Qa5
>               12     3:08   0.50   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Ka8 47. Qxa5 Qe7
>                                    48. Rc1 Rdc8 49. Qa6 Rb8 50. Bc5 Qe6
>                                    51. Bf2
>               12->   3:45   0.50   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Ka8 47. Qxa5 Qe7
>                                    48. Rc1 Rdc8 49. Qa6 Rb8 50. Bc5 Qe6
>                                    51. Bf2
>               13     7:01   0.61   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Ka8 47. Qxa5 Qe7
>                                    48. Rc1 Rdc8 49. Qa6 Rb8 50. Rc4 Rb2
>                                    51. Bc5 Qg5
>               13->   8:31   0.61   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Ka8 47. Qxa5 Qe7
>                                    48. Rc1 Rdc8 49. Qa6 Rb8 50. Rc4 Rb2
>                                    51. Bc5 Qg5
>               14    19:49   0.52   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Ka8 47. Qxa5 Qe7
>                                    48. Kh2 Rdc8 49. Qa6 Rb8 50. Bf2 Qe6
>                                    51. Ra2 Rb1 52. Rc2
>Black(44): b5
>Black(45): b5
>              clearing hash tables
>              time surplus   0.00  time limit 30.00 (3:00)
>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>                7     1.61  -1.60   46. a6 Ka8 47. Rb2 Rg8 48. Qc2 Qg6
>                                    49. Qb3
>                7     1.96  -1.57   46. Qe2 Rd5 47. Bc5 a6 48. Bb6 Rg7
>                                    49. Kg1
>                7     2.42  -1.21   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Qxc5 Qf6
>                                    49. Qxb5+ Ka8 50. Qc5 Qxc6 51. Qxe5
>                7->   2.49  -1.21   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Qxc5 Qf6
>                                    49. Qxb5+ Ka8 50. Qc5 Qxc6 51. Qxe5
>                8     2.98  -1.21   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Qxc5 Qf6
>                                    49. Qxb5+ Ka8 50. Qc5 Qxc6 51. Qxe5
>                8->   4.02  -1.21   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Qxc5 Qf6
>                                    49. Qxb5+ Ka8 50. Qc5 Qxc6 51. Qxe5
>                9     5.38  -0.82   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Bxc5 Rxc6
>                                    49. Qxb5+ Kc7 50. a6 Kd7 51. Bxa7
>                9->   6.32  -0.82   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Bxc5 Rxc6
>                                    49. Qxb5+ Kc7 50. a6 Kd7 51. Bxa7
>               10    10.10  -0.87   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Qb3 Qd8 48. Bb6 a6
>                                    49. Bxc7+ Kxc7 50. Kh2 Qd6 51. Qb2
>               10->  14.53  -0.87   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Qb3 Qd8 48. Bb6 a6
>                                    49. Bxc7+ Kxc7 50. Kh2 Qd6 51. Qb2
>               11    21.60  -0.87   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Qb3 Qd8 48. Bb6 a6
>                                    49. Bxc7+ Kxc7 50. Kh2 Qd6 51. Qb2
>                                    Qe6
>               11->  37.51  -0.87   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Qb3 Qd8 48. Bb6 a6
>                                    49. Bxc7+ Kxc7 50. Kh2 Qd6 51. Qb2
>                                    Qe6
>               12     1:08  -0.97   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Bxc5 Kc8
>                                    49. Qxb5 Qg6 50. Qa6+ Kd8 51. Kh2 Rxc6
>                                    52. Qxa7 Qg3+ 53. Kg1
>               12->   1:54  -0.97   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Bxc5 Kc8
>                                    49. Qxb5 Qg6 50. Qa6+ Kd8 51. Kh2 Rxc6
>                                    52. Qxa7 Qg3+ 53. Kg1
>               13     2:48  -0.92   46. Qb4 Rd5 47. Rc5 Rxc5 48. Bxc5 Kc8
>                                    49. Qxb5 Qg6 50. Qa6+ Kd8 51. Bxa7
>                                    Rxc6 52. Bb6+ Ke8 53. Qe2 Qg5
>White(46): back 1
>middle-game phase
>              clearing hash tables
>              time surplus  22:00  time limit 1:00 (6:00)
>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>                7     1.61   0.93   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Qf6 48. Qb5+ Ka8 49. Rc5 Rxc6 50. Rxe5
>                7->   2.25   0.93   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Qf6 48. Qb5+ Ka8 49. Rc5 Rxc6 50. Rxe5
>                8     3.12   0.91   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Ka8 48. Qa6 Qg6 49. Rc4 Rxc6 50. Qxa7#
>                8->   3.79   0.91   45. ... bxa5 46. Qa4 Rdc8 47. Qxa5
>                                    Ka8 48. Qa6 Qg6 49. Rc4 Rxc6 50. Qxa7#
>Black(44): bxa5
>Black(45): bxa5
>              clearing hash tables
>              time surplus  22:00  time limit 1:00 (6:00)
>         nss  depth   time  score   variation (1)
>                6     1.66  -1.64   46. Qc4 Qg6 47. Qb5+ Ka8 48. Qxa5 Qxc2
>                                    49. Qxc7
>                6     2.04  -1.58   46. Rb2+ Ka8 47. Qa4 Rb8 48. Rd2 Rd8
>                                    49. Rb2
>                6     2.70  -1.21   46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Rdxc6 48. Bxa7+
>                                    Kc8 49. Bc5
>                6->   2.80  -1.21   46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Rdxc6 48. Bxa7+
>                                    Kc8 49. Bc5
>                7     3.24  -1.37   46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Rdxc6 48. Bxa7+
>                                    Kc8 49. Bc5 e4
>                7->   3.68  -1.37   46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Rdxc6 48. Bxa7+
>                                    Kc8 49. Bc5 e4
>                8     5.33  -1.30   46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Kc8 48. Qa6+ Kd8
>                                    49. Qa5 Qf6 50. Bxa7 Rxc6
>                8->  10.40  -1.30   46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Kc8 48. Qa6+ Kd8
>                                    49. Qa5 Qf6 50. Bxa7 Rxc6
>                9    14.29  -1.30   46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Kc8 48. Qa6+ Kd8
>                                    49. Qa5 Qf6 50. Bxa7 Rxc6
>                9->  32.46  -1.30   46. Qa4 Rd6 47. Qxa5 Kc8 48. Qa6+ Kd8
>                                    49. Qa5 Qf6 50. Bxa7 Rxc6
>               10    58.69  -0.99   46. Qa4 Qe7 47. Qxa5 Rd1 48. Kh2 Rd6
>                                    49. Bc5 Rcxc6 50. Bxd6+ Rxd6 51. Qc5
>               10->   1:21  -0.99   46. Qa4 Qe7 47. Qxa5 Rd1 48. Kh2 Rd6
>                                    49. Bc5 Rcxc6 50. Bxd6+ Rxd6 51. Qc5
>               11     2:08  -1.03   46. Qa4 Qe7 47. Qxa5 Ka8 48. Rc1 Rdc8
>                                    49. Qa6 Rb8 50. Bc5 Qe6 51. Bf2
>               11->   4:55  -1.03   46. Qa4 Qe7 47. Qxa5 Ka8 48. Rc1 Rdc8
>                                    49. Qa6 Rb8 50. Bc5 Qe6 51. Bf2
>               12     7:53  -1.08   46. Qa4 Ka8 47. Qxa5 Qe7 48. Re2 Rg8
>                                    49. Bc5 <HT>
>               12->  11:02  -1.08   46. Qa4 Ka8 47. Qxa5 Qe7 48. Re2 Rg8
>                                    49. Bc5 <HT>



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