Author: pavel
Date: 22:41:38 10/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On October 15, 2000 at 18:52:45, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >Hello, > >I bought a few months ago NCO edition 1999. It rocked at world champs 2000. >In dutch open i drew 2 games Petroff and could be happy with 2 draws after >i was lost (according to diep at least) in both games. > >In a F'ing MAINLINE MAINLINE Petroff (in netherlands called Russian) >i got 2 consecutive games bad out of book as i didn't feed the entire line >as printed in NCO into my tournament book. > >Instead now at move 18 for black my program referred to its huge 'corbitt' >database and got kicked butt in opening. That DIEP kept game a draw >is looking to middlegame scores (don't watch the silly endgamescores) >not bad. > >First game and here i'm real mad about myself not feeding in enough >moves the book makers was their >sentence at page 299 where they discuss openings: > "However the main alternative to 2..Nc6 is is undoubtedly Petroff's > defense 2..Nf6 pages 299-305". > >The petroff lines are analyzed by John Nunn. > >John Nunn: > 400017 Nunn, John D.M. g ENG 2578 23 25.04.55 > >Game against Kallisto: > >e2-e4 (1:30:00,1:30:00) >e7-e5 (1:30:00,1:29:59) book >g1-f3 (1:29:37,1:29:59) >g8-f6 (1:29:37,1:29:59) book >f3xe5 (1:29:18,1:29:59) >d7-d6 (1:29:18,1:29:59) book >e5-f3 (1:29:03,1:29:59) >f6xe4 (1:29:03,1:29:59) book >d2-d4 (1:28:55,1:29:59) >d6-d5 (1:28:55,1:29:59) book >f1-d3 (1:28:42,1:29:59) >f8-d6 (1:28:42,1:29:59) book >O-O (1:28:07,1:29:59) >O-O (1:28:07,1:29:59) book >c2-c4 (1:27:58,1:29:59) >c7-c6 (1:27:58,1:29:59) book >b1-c3 (1:27:49,1:29:59) >e4xc3 (1:27:49,1:29:59) book >b2xc3 (1:27:41,1:29:59) >c8-g4 (1:27:41,1:29:59) book >c4xd5 (1:27:32,1:29:59) >c6xd5 (1:27:32,1:29:59) book >a1-b1 (1:27:23,1:29:59) >b8-d7 (1:27:23,1:29:59) book >h2-h3 (1:27:12,1:29:59) >g4-h5 (1:27:12,1:29:59) book >b1-b5 (1:27:04,1:29:59) >d7-b6 (1:27:04,1:29:59) book >c3-c4 (1:26:56,1:29:59) >h5xf3 (1:26:56,1:29:59) book >d1xf3 (1:26:47,1:29:59) >d5xc4 (1:26:47,1:29:59) book >d3-c2 (1:26:39,1:29:59) >d8-d7 (1:26:39,1:29:59) book > >So far my tournament book. So far the line as printed in the >maindiagram in NCO. Sublines give a4,g6 now as interesting as well as >a4,Rab8 latter i find a hazardeous move, but it still better as what >happened. To my big disgust my program fell >into database here with a corbitt a look like collection. a4 Bc7 is not >mentionned in NCO. > >a2-a4 (1:26:33,1:29:59) >d6-c7 (1:26:33,1:29:59) book > >Question 0: DOES CAP (corbitt analysis project?) play this losing Bc7 move? > >b5-c5 (1:26:09,1:29:59) >c7-d6 (1:26:09,1:24:59) 0.00 12 24370597 02:31 12233460 (359076) 11 0.00 >Bc7-d6 Rc5-b5 >a4-a5 (1:24:39,1:24:59) > >Note that a5 was still a book move of my opponent. The white and black >operator both had gone to sleep a bit that it took that long >to make the a5 book move. > >Question 1: Does CAP also find that a5! is an excellent move? > >Question 2: diep failed low when searching at Bxc5? I don't know how >happy position is after Nc8, but after Bxc5 getting the exchange white >sure is won (not easily to play though). >All books realize that except my automatic generated one seemingly. >My opponent had Nc8 in his book. >White operator already claimed that the line Bc7 which was in book >was bad anyway. I have to agree with him that Bc7 definitely after the >next few moves wasn't big fun. > >d6xc5 (1:24:39,1:21:36) 0.19 13 18521066 02:43 14739593 (572829) 13 0.18 >Bd6xc5 d4xc5 Nb6-c8 a5-a6 Nc8-e7 a6xb7 Ra8-b8 Qf3-e4 f7-f5 Qe4xc4 Kg8-h8 Bc1-f4 >Rb8xb7 Rf1-d1 >d4xc5 (1:23:14,1:21:36) >b6-c8 (1:23:14,1:20:11) 0.65 13 14074005 00:47 10802608 (279510) 12 0.64 >Nb6-c8 Rf1-d1 Qd7-e6 Qf3xb7 Nc8-e7 Qb7-e4 Qe6xe4 Bc2xe4 Ra8-c8 Rd1-d7 f7-f5 >Be4-f3 >f3-e4 (1:20:03,1:20:11) >f7-f5 (1:20:03,1:17:24) 0.53 13 15060929 01:16 6967373 (1661693) 12 0.53 >f7-f5 Qe4xc4 Kg8-h8 Bc1-f4 a7-a6 Rf1-d1 Qd7-c6 Bc2xf5 Nc8-b6 Qc4-c2 Nb6-c4 >Bf4-d6 Rf8-f7 >e4xc4 (1:18:13,1:17:24) >g8-h8 (1:18:13,1:16:33) 0.08 13 13804859 00:16 1504361 (632842) 12 0.07 >Kg8-h8 Bc1-f4 h7-h6 Rf1-d1 Qd7-c6 Rd1-e1 Kh8-h7 Re1-e6 Qc6-d7 c5-c6 b7xc6 Qc4xc6 >Qd7xc6 Re6xc6 >c1-f4 (1:16:19,1:16:33) >c8-e7 (1:16:19,1:15:22) 0.07 12 15975522 00:33 3100325 (102333) 12 0.07 >Nc8-e7 Rf1-d1 Qd7-e8 Bf4-d6 Rf8-f6 Bc2-a4 Ne7-c6 a5-a6 b7xa6 Qc4xa6 Ra8-c8 >Ba4xc6 Qe8xc6 Qa6xa7 >f1-d1 (1:14:47,1:15:22) >d7-e8 (1:14:47,1:14:48) -0.39 13 12245500 01:00 5829358 (646036) 12 -0.39 >Qd7-e8 Bf4-d6 Rf8-f6 Rd1-e1 Qe8-g8 Qc4xg8 Ne7xg8 Re1-b1 b7-b6 a5xb6 a7xb6 Rb1xb6 >Rf6-f7 > > >Finally my score starts dropping. At this point i realize i'm a big fool >to rely on automatic generated book. > >f4-d6 (1:11:36,1:14:48) >f8-f6 (1:11:36,1:14:48) -0.66 14 19338404 01:48 11223857 (374196) 13 -0.66 >Rf8-f6 Rd1-e1 Qe8-g8 Bc2-b3 Qg8xc4 Bb3xc4 Ne7-g8 Bc4-d5 Ra8-d8 Bd5xb7 Rf6xd6 >c5xd6 g7-g5 > >Here i felt like an idiot to have an automatic generated book. Lazy >is not rewarding when you want to win from an old program like Kallisto. > > >d1-e1 (1:10:10,1:14:48) >e8-g8 (1:10:10,1:14:09) -0.33 14 12154436 01:18 7794165 (1092263) 13 -0.32 >Qe8-g8 Bc2-b3 Qg8xc4 Bb3xc4 Ne7-c6 a5-a6 b7-b6 Bc4-d5 b6xc5 Bd5xc6 Ra8-g8 Re1-d1 >Rg8-d8 >c4xg8 (1:08:13,1:14:09) >e7xg8 (1:08:13,1:12:05) -0.30 13 14698351 01:28 10368841 (3523677) 12 -0.30 >Ne7xg8 Bc2-b3 b7-b6 Bb3-d5 Ra8-d8 Bd5-b7 Rf6xd6 c5xd6 Rd8xd6 a5xb6 Rd6xb6 Bb7-d5 >e1-b1 (1:06:38,1:12:05) >a8-c8 (1:06:38,1:10:05) -0.57 14 14499518 01:50 13338140 (465183) 13 -0.57 >Ra8-c8 Bc2-d3 Rf6-f7 Bd3-c4 Rf7-f6 Rb1-b4 Ng8-h6 Bc4-d5 b7-b6 a5xb6 a7xb6 Rb4xb6 >Rc8-e8 >c2-a4 (1:03:35,1:10:05) >b7-b6 (1:03:35,1:08:08) -0.73 15 14806382 01:34 11907385 (1221355) 15 -0.72 >b7-b6 a5xb6 a7xb6 Rb1xb6 Rc8-a8 Ba4-c6 Ra8-d8 Bc6-d5 Rd8-e8 Rb6-b7 Rf6-h6 Kg1-f1 >Rh6-h4 c5-c6 Ng8-f6 > >I felt the position was completely lost here. Also i felt >Kallisto missed some chances here. Later study revealed it's not all that >simple, but it sure is annoying to get this bad out of book. No way black >can ever win this. > >I WANT TO WIN FROM KALLISTO. I don't want a chance to perhaps ever draw it >if my middlegame AND endgame is a bit better as kallisto. Posting that >diep is not that a bad engine anywhere is looking idiot if you grab an >exchange then rest of game you are lost till the repetition occurs. > >a5xb6 (1:02:19,1:08:08) >a7xb6 (1:02:19,1:07:31) -0.82 15 13051299 00:47 5738536 (966061) 14 -0.82 >a7xb6 Rb1xb6 Rc8-a8 Ba4-b3 Ra8-e8 Kg1-h2 f5-f4 Bb3-a4 Re8-e4 Ba4-c6 Re4-c4 >Bc6-d5 Rc4-d4 Bd5-f3 >b1xb6 (1:01:07,1:07:31) >f6-f7 (1:01:07,1:04:55) -0.87 13 26450477 02:04 22919634 (1227426) 13 -0.86 >Rf6-f7 Ba4-c2 f5-f4 c5-c6 Rf7-f6 c6-c7 Rf6xd6 Rb6xd6 Rc8xc7 Bc2-d1 g7-g5 Rd6-d8 >a4-b3 (0:57:57,1:04:55) >f7-f6 (0:57:57,1:02:53) -1.57 14 14233602 01:29 10531574 (1855993) 14 -1.56 >Rf7-f6 Rb6-b7 Rc8-e8 f2-f4 Ng8-h6 Bd6-e5 Rf6-g6 c5-c6 Re8-c8 Bb3-d5 Nh6-g8 c6-c7 >Ng8-e7 Rb7-b8 >b6-b7 (0:55:55,1:02:53) >f5-f4 (0:55:55,1:01:59) -1.30 13 19754992 00:50 19389882 (4612559) 13 -1.30 >f5-f4 Bd6-e5 Rf6-g6 Be5xf4 Rg6-a6 f2-f3 Ng8-f6 Kg1-h2 Nf6-e8 Bf4-e3 Ra6-a1 >Be3-d4 Ra1-b1 >f2-f3 (0:54:29,1:01:59) >h7-h5 (0:54:29,1:00:16) -1.14 13 12434686 01:30 10781580 (520614) 12 -1.13 >h7-h5 Bd6-e5 Rc8xc5 Be5-b2 Rc5-c8 Bb3xg8 Kh8xg8 Bb2xf6 Rc8-c1 Kg1-f2 Rc1-c2 >Kf2-f1 g7xf6 Kf1-g1 >g1-f1 (0:51:47,1:00:16) >g8-h6 (0:51:47,0:57:05) -1.31 14 21822096 01:39 12087877 (666933) 14 -1.31 >Ng8-h6 Bd6-e5 Rf6-g6 Bb3-c2 Rg6-g5 Be5-d4 h5-h4 c5-c6 Kh8-g8 Bc2-e4 Nh6-f7 >Bd4-f2 Rg5-h5 Rb7-d7 >d6-e5 (0:50:02,0:57:05) >f6-g6 (0:50:02,0:57:05) -1.12 15 12486156 00:54 6681953 (32858) 14 -1.12 >Rf6-g6 Bb3-c2 Rg6-g5 Be5-d4 h5-h4 c5-c6 Kh8-g8 c6-c7 Kg8-f7 Bd4-f2 Rg5-h5 Bc2-e4 >Nh6-g8 Bf2-d4 >b3-c2 (0:45:10,0:57:05) >g6-g5 (0:45:10,0:57:05) -1.75 17 33894168 03:31 24877378 (2932268) 16 -1.74 >Rg6-g5 Be5-d4 h5-h4 c5-c6 Nh6-g8 Bc2-b3 Rc8xc6 Rb7-b8 Rc6-c1 Kf1-f2 Rc1-c2 >Kf2-e1 Rc2-c1 Ke1-d2 Rc1-h1 Rb8xg8 Kh8-h7 Rg8-f8 Rg5xg2 Kd2-d3 g7-g5 >e5-d4 (0:43:37,0:57:05) >h5-h4 (0:43:37,0:57:03) -1.91 16 10320260 00:10 1216415 (147853) 15 -1.90 >h5-h4 c5-c6 Nh6-g8 Bc2-b3 Rc8xc6 Rb7-b8 Rc6-c1 Kf1-f2 Rc1-c2 Kf2-e1 Rc2-c1 >Ke1-d2 Rc1-h1 Rb8xg8 Kh8-h7 Rg8-f8 Rg5xg2 Kd2-d3 g7-g5 Bb3-e6 >c2-e4 (0:39:53,0:57:03) >c8-d8 (0:39:53,0:55:12) -1.29 14 12377125 01:10 7888430 (2054727) 14 -1.28 >Rc8-d8 c5-c6 Rd8xd4 c6-c7 Rd4-d1 Kf1-f2 Rg5-c5 Rb7-b8 Nh6-g8 c7-c8Q Rc5xc8 >Rb8xc8 g7-g5 Kf2-e2 Rd1-a1 >d4-f2 (0:37:30,0:55:12) >d8-d1+ (0:37:30,0:53:40) -1.32 14 9865945 00:56 6145959 (825735) 13 -1.31 >Rd8-d1 Kf1-e2 Rd1-c1 c5-c6 Nh6-g8 c6-c7 Rc1-c4 Ke2-d3 Rc4-c1 Bf2xh4 Rg5xg2 >Be4-f5 Rg2-c2 c7-c8Q Rc2xc8 Bf5xc8 Rc1xc8 >f1-e2 (0:34:20,0:53:40) >d1-a1 (0:34:20,0:53:40) -1.90 14 19313784 01:20 8079993 (1768668) 13 -1.90 >Rd1-a1 c5-c6 Ra1-a2 Ke2-f1 Ra2-a1 Be4-b1 Ra1-a8 Bf2-d4 Nh6-f7 Rb7xf7 Ra8-b8 >Bb1-e4 Rb8-d8 >c5-c6 (0:31:14,0:53:40) >a1-a2+ (0:31:14,0:53:40) -2.76 13 17941154 00:07 709497 (165973) 12 -2.75 >Ra1-a2 Ke2-f1 Ra2-a1 Be4-b1 Rg5-d5 c6-c7 Rd5-d1 Kf1-e2 Rd1-c1 Rb7-b8 Nh6-g8 >c7-c8Q Rc1xc8 Rb8xc8 Ra1xb1 Bf2xh4 >e2-f1 (0:28:14,0:53:40) >a2-a1+ (0:28:14,0:53:40) -2.52 16 19476903 01:32 10232137 (633840) 15 -2.52 >Ra2-a1 Bf2-e1 Nh6-g8 Rb7-b8 Rg5-c5 Kf1-e2 Ra1-a2 Ke2-d3 Ra2xg2 Be1-b4 g7-g5 >Bb4-c3 Rc5xc3 Kd3xc3 Rg2-h2 Be4-d5 Rh2xh3 >f2-e1 (0:25:22,0:53:40) >h6-g8 (0:25:22,0:52:32) -2.55 16 25756901 02:16 14878552 (1782140) 16 -2.55 >Nh6-g8 Rb7-b8 Ra1-c1 Kf1-f2 Rg5-c5 Be1-d2 Rc1-c2 Be4xc2 Rc5xc2 Kf2-e2 Rc2xc6 >Bd2xf4 Rc6-g6 Ke2-f1 Rg6-b6 >b7-b2 (0:22:25,0:52:32) >g5-c5 (0:22:25,0:51:04) -1.66 13 9922991 00:58 6567590 (207475) 12 -1.65 >Rg5-c5 c6-c7 >f1-e2 (0:20:57,0:51:04) >a1-a8 (0:20:57,0:49:39) -1.75 13 9459359 01:23 9288936 (1042457) 13 -1.75 >Ra1-a8 Be1xh4 Ng8-f6 Bh4xf6 g7xf6 Rb2-c2 Rc5-g5 Ke2-f2 Ra8-g8 Kf2-f1 Rg8-c8 >Rc2-d2 >e1xh4 (0:18:11,0:49:39) >g8-f6 (0:18:11,0:49:39) 0.00 16 20045445 01:48 13225221 (141729) 15 0.00 >Ng8-f6 Bh4xf6 g7xf6 Rb2-c2 Rc5xc2 Be4xc2 Ra8-a5 Bc2-e4 f6-f5 Be4-c2 Ra5-c5 >Bc2-a4 Rc5-c4 Ba4-b5 Rc4-c5 Bb5-a4 >h4xf6 (0:16:32,0:49:39) >g7xf6 (0:16:32,0:49:39) -0.05 14 11148088 00:32 4020665 (387503) 13 -0.04 >g7xf6 Rb2-b4 f6-f5 Be4-b1 Rc5xc6 Rb4xf4 Rc6-c1 Bb1xf5 Ra8-a2 Ke2-d3 Kh8-g7 g2-g4 >Rc1-d1 Kd3-c3 Kg7-f6 Bf5-b1 Kf6-e6 Bb1xa2 Ke6-e5 >b2-c2 (0:14:47,0:35:00) >c5xc2+ (0:14:47,0:34:01) 0.00 13 9650742 00:18 2934203 (63584) 12 0.00 >Rc5xc2 Be4xc2 Ra8-a5 Bc2-b3 Ra5-c5 Bb3-a4 Rc5-c4 Ba4-b5 Rc4-c5 Bb5-a4 >e4xc2 (0:13:46,0:34:01) >a8-a5 (0:13:46,0:34:01) 0.00 13 11571351 00:22 4406197 (105880) 12 0.00 >Ra8-a5 Bc2-b3 Ra5-c5 Bb3-a4 Rc5-c4 Ba4-b5 Rc4-c5 Bb5-a4 >c2-b3 (0:11:43,0:34:01) >a5-c5 (0:11:43,0:34:01) 0.00 13 23224279 01:10 13513488 (462538) 13 0.00 >Ra5-c5 Bb3-a4 Rc5-c4 Ba4-b5 Rc4-c5 Bb5-a4 >b3-a4 (0:10:36,0:34:01) >c5-a5 (0:10:36,0:34:01) 0.00 13 12751860 01:02 12063113 (1065042) 13 0.00 >Rc5-a5 Ba4-b3 >a4-b3 (0:09:10,0:34:01) >a5-c5 (0:09:10,0:33:04) 0.00 12 11714607 00:21 4561003 (484633) 12 0.00 >Ra5-c5 Bb3-a4 >b3-a4 (0:07:26,0:33:04) >c5-a5 (0:07:26,0:32:09) 0.00 13 11361148 00:51 10695781 (795974) 13 0.00 >Rc5-a5 Ba4-b3 > >White Bart Weststrate and his brother who are cool guys >commented on this: "this was >an exciting game!". Yes it was exciting, and yes i found it very pleasant >how Bart and his brother and Koen and me could communicate, but i felt >very sick about this game. > >Vincent If you have so much complains about CAP, why bother using it? dont use it........no harm done. Pavel
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