Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: CAP in dutch open I: Kallisto-Diep?

Author: pavel

Date: 22:41:38 10/15/00

Go up one level in this thread


On October 15, 2000 at 18:52:45, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I bought a few months ago NCO edition 1999. It rocked at world champs 2000.
>In dutch open i drew 2 games Petroff and could be happy with 2 draws after
>i was lost (according to diep at least) in both games.
>
>In a F'ing MAINLINE MAINLINE Petroff (in netherlands called Russian)
>i got 2 consecutive games bad out of book as i didn't feed the entire line
>as printed in NCO into my tournament book.
>
>Instead now at move 18 for black my program referred to its huge 'corbitt'
>database and got kicked butt in opening. That DIEP kept game a draw
>is looking to middlegame scores (don't watch the silly endgamescores)
>not bad.
>
>First game and here i'm real mad about myself not feeding in enough
>moves the book makers was their
>sentence at page 299 where they discuss openings:
>   "However the main alternative to 2..Nc6 is is undoubtedly Petroff's
>    defense 2..Nf6 pages 299-305".
>
>The petroff lines are analyzed by John Nunn.
>
>John Nunn:
>    400017  Nunn, John D.M.                 g  ENG  2578   23  25.04.55
>
>Game against Kallisto:
>
>e2-e4     (1:30:00,1:30:00)
>e7-e5     (1:30:00,1:29:59)  book
>g1-f3     (1:29:37,1:29:59)
>g8-f6     (1:29:37,1:29:59)  book
>f3xe5     (1:29:18,1:29:59)
>d7-d6     (1:29:18,1:29:59)  book
>e5-f3     (1:29:03,1:29:59)
>f6xe4     (1:29:03,1:29:59)  book
>d2-d4     (1:28:55,1:29:59)
>d6-d5     (1:28:55,1:29:59)  book
>f1-d3     (1:28:42,1:29:59)
>f8-d6     (1:28:42,1:29:59)  book
>O-O       (1:28:07,1:29:59)
>O-O       (1:28:07,1:29:59)  book
>c2-c4     (1:27:58,1:29:59)
>c7-c6     (1:27:58,1:29:59)  book
>b1-c3     (1:27:49,1:29:59)
>e4xc3     (1:27:49,1:29:59)  book
>b2xc3     (1:27:41,1:29:59)
>c8-g4     (1:27:41,1:29:59)  book
>c4xd5     (1:27:32,1:29:59)
>c6xd5     (1:27:32,1:29:59)  book
>a1-b1     (1:27:23,1:29:59)
>b8-d7     (1:27:23,1:29:59)  book
>h2-h3     (1:27:12,1:29:59)
>g4-h5     (1:27:12,1:29:59)  book
>b1-b5     (1:27:04,1:29:59)
>d7-b6     (1:27:04,1:29:59)  book
>c3-c4     (1:26:56,1:29:59)
>h5xf3     (1:26:56,1:29:59)  book
>d1xf3     (1:26:47,1:29:59)
>d5xc4     (1:26:47,1:29:59)  book
>d3-c2     (1:26:39,1:29:59)
>d8-d7     (1:26:39,1:29:59)  book
>
>So far my tournament book. So far the line as printed in the
>maindiagram in NCO. Sublines give a4,g6 now as interesting as well as
>a4,Rab8 latter i find a hazardeous move, but it still better as what
>happened. To my big disgust my program fell
>into database here with a corbitt a look like collection. a4 Bc7 is not
>mentionned in NCO.
>
>a2-a4     (1:26:33,1:29:59)
>d6-c7     (1:26:33,1:29:59)  book
>
>Question 0: DOES CAP (corbitt analysis project?) play this losing Bc7 move?
>
>b5-c5     (1:26:09,1:29:59)
>c7-d6     (1:26:09,1:24:59)  0.00 12 24370597 02:31 12233460 (359076) 11 0.00
>Bc7-d6 Rc5-b5
>a4-a5     (1:24:39,1:24:59)
>
>Note that a5 was still a book move of my opponent. The white and black
>operator both had gone to sleep a bit that it took that long
>to make the a5 book move.
>
>Question 1: Does CAP also find that a5! is an excellent move?
>
>Question 2: diep failed low when searching at Bxc5? I don't know how
>happy position is after Nc8, but after Bxc5 getting the exchange white
>sure is won (not easily to play though).
>All books realize that except my automatic generated one seemingly.
>My opponent had Nc8 in his book.
>White operator already claimed that the line Bc7 which was in book
>was bad anyway. I have to agree with him that Bc7 definitely after the
>next few moves wasn't big fun.
>
>d6xc5     (1:24:39,1:21:36)  0.19 13 18521066 02:43 14739593 (572829) 13 0.18
>Bd6xc5 d4xc5 Nb6-c8 a5-a6 Nc8-e7 a6xb7 Ra8-b8 Qf3-e4 f7-f5 Qe4xc4 Kg8-h8 Bc1-f4
>Rb8xb7 Rf1-d1
>d4xc5     (1:23:14,1:21:36)
>b6-c8     (1:23:14,1:20:11)  0.65 13 14074005 00:47 10802608 (279510) 12 0.64
>Nb6-c8 Rf1-d1 Qd7-e6 Qf3xb7 Nc8-e7 Qb7-e4 Qe6xe4 Bc2xe4 Ra8-c8 Rd1-d7 f7-f5
>Be4-f3
>f3-e4     (1:20:03,1:20:11)
>f7-f5     (1:20:03,1:17:24)  0.53 13 15060929 01:16 6967373 (1661693) 12 0.53
>f7-f5 Qe4xc4 Kg8-h8 Bc1-f4 a7-a6 Rf1-d1 Qd7-c6 Bc2xf5 Nc8-b6 Qc4-c2 Nb6-c4
>Bf4-d6 Rf8-f7
>e4xc4     (1:18:13,1:17:24)
>g8-h8     (1:18:13,1:16:33)  0.08 13 13804859 00:16 1504361 (632842) 12 0.07
>Kg8-h8 Bc1-f4 h7-h6 Rf1-d1 Qd7-c6 Rd1-e1 Kh8-h7 Re1-e6 Qc6-d7 c5-c6 b7xc6 Qc4xc6
>Qd7xc6 Re6xc6
>c1-f4     (1:16:19,1:16:33)
>c8-e7     (1:16:19,1:15:22)  0.07 12 15975522 00:33 3100325 (102333) 12 0.07
>Nc8-e7 Rf1-d1 Qd7-e8 Bf4-d6 Rf8-f6 Bc2-a4 Ne7-c6 a5-a6 b7xa6 Qc4xa6 Ra8-c8
>Ba4xc6 Qe8xc6 Qa6xa7
>f1-d1     (1:14:47,1:15:22)
>d7-e8     (1:14:47,1:14:48)  -0.39 13 12245500 01:00 5829358 (646036) 12 -0.39
>Qd7-e8 Bf4-d6 Rf8-f6 Rd1-e1 Qe8-g8 Qc4xg8 Ne7xg8 Re1-b1 b7-b6 a5xb6 a7xb6 Rb1xb6
>Rf6-f7
>
>
>Finally my score starts dropping. At this point i realize i'm a big fool
>to rely on automatic generated book.
>
>f4-d6     (1:11:36,1:14:48)
>f8-f6     (1:11:36,1:14:48)  -0.66 14 19338404 01:48 11223857 (374196) 13 -0.66
>Rf8-f6 Rd1-e1 Qe8-g8 Bc2-b3 Qg8xc4 Bb3xc4 Ne7-g8 Bc4-d5 Ra8-d8 Bd5xb7 Rf6xd6
>c5xd6 g7-g5
>
>Here i felt like an idiot to have an automatic generated book. Lazy
>is not rewarding when you want to win from an old program like Kallisto.
>
>
>d1-e1     (1:10:10,1:14:48)
>e8-g8     (1:10:10,1:14:09)  -0.33 14 12154436 01:18 7794165 (1092263) 13 -0.32
>Qe8-g8 Bc2-b3 Qg8xc4 Bb3xc4 Ne7-c6 a5-a6 b7-b6 Bc4-d5 b6xc5 Bd5xc6 Ra8-g8 Re1-d1
>Rg8-d8
>c4xg8     (1:08:13,1:14:09)
>e7xg8     (1:08:13,1:12:05)  -0.30 13 14698351 01:28 10368841 (3523677) 12 -0.30
>Ne7xg8 Bc2-b3 b7-b6 Bb3-d5 Ra8-d8 Bd5-b7 Rf6xd6 c5xd6 Rd8xd6 a5xb6 Rd6xb6 Bb7-d5
>e1-b1     (1:06:38,1:12:05)
>a8-c8     (1:06:38,1:10:05)  -0.57 14 14499518 01:50 13338140 (465183) 13 -0.57
>Ra8-c8 Bc2-d3 Rf6-f7 Bd3-c4 Rf7-f6 Rb1-b4 Ng8-h6 Bc4-d5 b7-b6 a5xb6 a7xb6 Rb4xb6
>Rc8-e8
>c2-a4     (1:03:35,1:10:05)
>b7-b6     (1:03:35,1:08:08)  -0.73 15 14806382 01:34 11907385 (1221355) 15 -0.72
>b7-b6 a5xb6 a7xb6 Rb1xb6 Rc8-a8 Ba4-c6 Ra8-d8 Bc6-d5 Rd8-e8 Rb6-b7 Rf6-h6 Kg1-f1
>Rh6-h4 c5-c6 Ng8-f6
>
>I felt the position was completely lost here. Also i felt
>Kallisto missed some chances here. Later study revealed it's not all that
>simple, but it sure is annoying to get this bad out of book. No way black
>can ever win this.
>
>I WANT TO WIN FROM KALLISTO. I don't want a chance to perhaps ever draw it
>if my middlegame AND endgame is a bit better as kallisto. Posting that
>diep is not that a bad engine anywhere is looking idiot if you grab an
>exchange then rest of game you are lost till the repetition occurs.
>
>a5xb6     (1:02:19,1:08:08)
>a7xb6     (1:02:19,1:07:31)  -0.82 15 13051299 00:47 5738536 (966061) 14 -0.82
>a7xb6 Rb1xb6 Rc8-a8 Ba4-b3 Ra8-e8 Kg1-h2 f5-f4 Bb3-a4 Re8-e4 Ba4-c6 Re4-c4
>Bc6-d5 Rc4-d4 Bd5-f3
>b1xb6     (1:01:07,1:07:31)
>f6-f7     (1:01:07,1:04:55)  -0.87 13 26450477 02:04 22919634 (1227426) 13 -0.86
>Rf6-f7 Ba4-c2 f5-f4 c5-c6 Rf7-f6 c6-c7 Rf6xd6 Rb6xd6 Rc8xc7 Bc2-d1 g7-g5 Rd6-d8
>a4-b3     (0:57:57,1:04:55)
>f7-f6     (0:57:57,1:02:53)  -1.57 14 14233602 01:29 10531574 (1855993) 14 -1.56
>Rf7-f6 Rb6-b7 Rc8-e8 f2-f4 Ng8-h6 Bd6-e5 Rf6-g6 c5-c6 Re8-c8 Bb3-d5 Nh6-g8 c6-c7
>Ng8-e7 Rb7-b8
>b6-b7     (0:55:55,1:02:53)
>f5-f4     (0:55:55,1:01:59)  -1.30 13 19754992 00:50 19389882 (4612559) 13 -1.30
>f5-f4 Bd6-e5 Rf6-g6 Be5xf4 Rg6-a6 f2-f3 Ng8-f6 Kg1-h2 Nf6-e8 Bf4-e3 Ra6-a1
>Be3-d4 Ra1-b1
>f2-f3     (0:54:29,1:01:59)
>h7-h5     (0:54:29,1:00:16)  -1.14 13 12434686 01:30 10781580 (520614) 12 -1.13
>h7-h5 Bd6-e5 Rc8xc5 Be5-b2 Rc5-c8 Bb3xg8 Kh8xg8 Bb2xf6 Rc8-c1 Kg1-f2 Rc1-c2
>Kf2-f1 g7xf6 Kf1-g1
>g1-f1     (0:51:47,1:00:16)
>g8-h6     (0:51:47,0:57:05)  -1.31 14 21822096 01:39 12087877 (666933) 14 -1.31
>Ng8-h6 Bd6-e5 Rf6-g6 Bb3-c2 Rg6-g5 Be5-d4 h5-h4 c5-c6 Kh8-g8 Bc2-e4 Nh6-f7
>Bd4-f2 Rg5-h5 Rb7-d7
>d6-e5     (0:50:02,0:57:05)
>f6-g6     (0:50:02,0:57:05)  -1.12 15 12486156 00:54 6681953 (32858) 14 -1.12
>Rf6-g6 Bb3-c2 Rg6-g5 Be5-d4 h5-h4 c5-c6 Kh8-g8 c6-c7 Kg8-f7 Bd4-f2 Rg5-h5 Bc2-e4
>Nh6-g8 Bf2-d4
>b3-c2     (0:45:10,0:57:05)
>g6-g5     (0:45:10,0:57:05)  -1.75 17 33894168 03:31 24877378 (2932268) 16 -1.74
>Rg6-g5 Be5-d4 h5-h4 c5-c6 Nh6-g8 Bc2-b3 Rc8xc6 Rb7-b8 Rc6-c1 Kf1-f2 Rc1-c2
>Kf2-e1 Rc2-c1 Ke1-d2 Rc1-h1 Rb8xg8 Kh8-h7 Rg8-f8 Rg5xg2 Kd2-d3 g7-g5
>e5-d4     (0:43:37,0:57:05)
>h5-h4     (0:43:37,0:57:03)  -1.91 16 10320260 00:10 1216415 (147853) 15 -1.90
>h5-h4 c5-c6 Nh6-g8 Bc2-b3 Rc8xc6 Rb7-b8 Rc6-c1 Kf1-f2 Rc1-c2 Kf2-e1 Rc2-c1
>Ke1-d2 Rc1-h1 Rb8xg8 Kh8-h7 Rg8-f8 Rg5xg2 Kd2-d3 g7-g5 Bb3-e6
>c2-e4     (0:39:53,0:57:03)
>c8-d8     (0:39:53,0:55:12)  -1.29 14 12377125 01:10 7888430 (2054727) 14 -1.28
>Rc8-d8 c5-c6 Rd8xd4 c6-c7 Rd4-d1 Kf1-f2 Rg5-c5 Rb7-b8 Nh6-g8 c7-c8Q Rc5xc8
>Rb8xc8 g7-g5 Kf2-e2 Rd1-a1
>d4-f2     (0:37:30,0:55:12)
>d8-d1+    (0:37:30,0:53:40)  -1.32 14 9865945 00:56 6145959 (825735) 13 -1.31
>Rd8-d1 Kf1-e2 Rd1-c1 c5-c6 Nh6-g8 c6-c7 Rc1-c4 Ke2-d3 Rc4-c1 Bf2xh4 Rg5xg2
>Be4-f5 Rg2-c2 c7-c8Q Rc2xc8 Bf5xc8 Rc1xc8
>f1-e2     (0:34:20,0:53:40)
>d1-a1     (0:34:20,0:53:40)  -1.90 14 19313784 01:20 8079993 (1768668) 13 -1.90
>Rd1-a1 c5-c6 Ra1-a2 Ke2-f1 Ra2-a1 Be4-b1 Ra1-a8 Bf2-d4 Nh6-f7 Rb7xf7 Ra8-b8
>Bb1-e4 Rb8-d8
>c5-c6     (0:31:14,0:53:40)
>a1-a2+    (0:31:14,0:53:40)  -2.76 13 17941154 00:07 709497 (165973) 12 -2.75
>Ra1-a2 Ke2-f1 Ra2-a1 Be4-b1 Rg5-d5 c6-c7 Rd5-d1 Kf1-e2 Rd1-c1 Rb7-b8 Nh6-g8
>c7-c8Q Rc1xc8 Rb8xc8 Ra1xb1 Bf2xh4
>e2-f1     (0:28:14,0:53:40)
>a2-a1+    (0:28:14,0:53:40)  -2.52 16 19476903 01:32 10232137 (633840) 15 -2.52
>Ra2-a1 Bf2-e1 Nh6-g8 Rb7-b8 Rg5-c5 Kf1-e2 Ra1-a2 Ke2-d3 Ra2xg2 Be1-b4 g7-g5
>Bb4-c3 Rc5xc3 Kd3xc3 Rg2-h2 Be4-d5 Rh2xh3
>f2-e1     (0:25:22,0:53:40)
>h6-g8     (0:25:22,0:52:32)  -2.55 16 25756901 02:16 14878552 (1782140) 16 -2.55
>Nh6-g8 Rb7-b8 Ra1-c1 Kf1-f2 Rg5-c5 Be1-d2 Rc1-c2 Be4xc2 Rc5xc2 Kf2-e2 Rc2xc6
>Bd2xf4 Rc6-g6 Ke2-f1 Rg6-b6
>b7-b2     (0:22:25,0:52:32)
>g5-c5     (0:22:25,0:51:04)  -1.66 13 9922991 00:58 6567590 (207475) 12 -1.65
>Rg5-c5 c6-c7
>f1-e2     (0:20:57,0:51:04)
>a1-a8     (0:20:57,0:49:39)  -1.75 13 9459359 01:23 9288936 (1042457) 13 -1.75
>Ra1-a8 Be1xh4 Ng8-f6 Bh4xf6 g7xf6 Rb2-c2 Rc5-g5 Ke2-f2 Ra8-g8 Kf2-f1 Rg8-c8
>Rc2-d2
>e1xh4     (0:18:11,0:49:39)
>g8-f6     (0:18:11,0:49:39)  0.00 16 20045445 01:48 13225221 (141729) 15 0.00
>Ng8-f6 Bh4xf6 g7xf6 Rb2-c2 Rc5xc2 Be4xc2 Ra8-a5 Bc2-e4 f6-f5 Be4-c2 Ra5-c5
>Bc2-a4 Rc5-c4 Ba4-b5 Rc4-c5 Bb5-a4
>h4xf6     (0:16:32,0:49:39)
>g7xf6     (0:16:32,0:49:39)  -0.05 14 11148088 00:32 4020665 (387503) 13 -0.04
>g7xf6 Rb2-b4 f6-f5 Be4-b1 Rc5xc6 Rb4xf4 Rc6-c1 Bb1xf5 Ra8-a2 Ke2-d3 Kh8-g7 g2-g4
>Rc1-d1 Kd3-c3 Kg7-f6 Bf5-b1 Kf6-e6 Bb1xa2 Ke6-e5
>b2-c2     (0:14:47,0:35:00)
>c5xc2+    (0:14:47,0:34:01)  0.00 13 9650742 00:18 2934203 (63584) 12 0.00
>Rc5xc2 Be4xc2 Ra8-a5 Bc2-b3 Ra5-c5 Bb3-a4 Rc5-c4 Ba4-b5 Rc4-c5 Bb5-a4
>e4xc2     (0:13:46,0:34:01)
>a8-a5     (0:13:46,0:34:01)  0.00 13 11571351 00:22 4406197 (105880) 12 0.00
>Ra8-a5 Bc2-b3 Ra5-c5 Bb3-a4 Rc5-c4 Ba4-b5 Rc4-c5 Bb5-a4
>c2-b3     (0:11:43,0:34:01)
>a5-c5     (0:11:43,0:34:01)  0.00 13 23224279 01:10 13513488 (462538) 13 0.00
>Ra5-c5 Bb3-a4 Rc5-c4 Ba4-b5 Rc4-c5 Bb5-a4
>b3-a4     (0:10:36,0:34:01)
>c5-a5     (0:10:36,0:34:01)  0.00 13 12751860 01:02 12063113 (1065042) 13 0.00
>Rc5-a5 Ba4-b3
>a4-b3     (0:09:10,0:34:01)
>a5-c5     (0:09:10,0:33:04)  0.00 12 11714607 00:21 4561003 (484633) 12 0.00
>Ra5-c5 Bb3-a4
>b3-a4     (0:07:26,0:33:04)
>c5-a5     (0:07:26,0:32:09)  0.00 13 11361148 00:51 10695781 (795974) 13 0.00
>Rc5-a5 Ba4-b3
>
>White Bart Weststrate and his brother who are cool guys
>commented on this: "this was
>an exciting game!". Yes it was exciting, and yes i found it very pleasant
>how Bart and his brother and Koen and me could communicate, but i felt
>very sick about this game.
>
>Vincent

If you have so much complains about CAP, why bother using it?
dont use it........no harm done.

Pavel



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.