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Subject: Re: typical: a sensation happens and nobody here registers it ! (repost)

Author: Chessfun

Date: 19:28:38 10/16/00

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On October 16, 2000 at 16:48:02, Chessfun wrote:

>On October 16, 2000 at 15:38:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 16, 2000 at 14:05:52, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On October 16, 2000 at 00:53:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>My take:  let's wait until the thing is released and see how it does.  Without
>>>>beta testers that exert a bit of influence over the program's time allocation
>>>>and book choices.
>>>
>>>
>>>Can you prove this statement please;
>>>
>>>There are no beta testers who exert any influence over book choice or
>>>time allocation. The program runs automatically on the server, the book
>>>is set.
>>>
>>>Sarah.
>>
>>
>>I base it on the following.  I have played multiple gambit tiger clones.  They
>>are reasonably predictable in their time usage.  With a "couple" of beta
>>testers, the thing will go into a "deep think" that is _far_ longer than the
>>time one would expect for a move.  IE it moves consistently at 30-50 seconds per
>>move, then takes 10 minutes.  In a position where it did _not_ fail low.  I
>>believe that the operator simply wants to give it a chance to find something
>>that may (or may not) be there.
>>
>>It is my opinion, with no proof of course.  But it is _very_ common with _all_
>>engines.  ChessPartner makes it trivial for the operator to influence things.
>>I can do it with xboard if I thought that I somehow might know more about when
>>to spent more time than Crafty does...
>>
>>As far as proof, simply play a few fully automatic games at (say) 30 30 or
>>whatever time control you like, and then check the times.  See if you see any
>>case where it takes more than 10x the normal time per move, when the score did
>>_not_ drop _or_ rise during that search.  If you find such cases, I will
>>certainly retract my statement.  But in watching so many games of late, it
>>is obvious that something goes on "from time to time".  IE I see most programs
>>taking 2x-3x on fail lows.  And sometimes for other reasons.  But not 10x or
>>longer.
>>
>>IE I would certainly like to do the same if that is the way games are to be
>>played. When I say Crafty is "automatic" I mean _automatic".  It does
>>_everything_ by itself, completely.
>
>
>You initially made two statements.
>One on time allocation. The other on book choice.
>The statement above explains why _you_ believe the time allocation theory,
>it makes no reference about book which was also part of your original statement.
>
>Then as to the statement you make.
>I am not aware how in the (CP5) interface it is possible to make the
>program think for a longer period of time that it chooses to.
>
>Now naturally you have no experience with CP5 as there are only some
>25 copies in use, but assuming that you refer to these practices happening
>in previous CP interfaces and therefore assume it can happen in (CP5) please
>explain how?.
>
>Since the pgn's do not have a time per move there is no way to check your
>statement without a long and laborious task at ICC. That is assuming that it is
>possible per the previous paragraph, that the operator can influence time.
>
>Sarah.



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