Author: Thorsten Czub
Date: 16:43:45 10/17/00
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Subject: Re: typical: a sensation happens and nobody here registers it ! [ Post Followup (without quoting) ] [ Post Followup (with quoting) ] [ Computer Chess Resource Center ] [ Message Listing ] Posted by Robert Hyatt on October 17, 2000 at 12:53:05: In Reply to: Re: typical: a sensation happens and nobody here registers it ! posted by Thorsten Czub on October 17, 2000 at 11:22:31: On October 17, 2000 at 11:22:31, Thorsten Czub wrote: >On October 17, 2000 at 10:22:10, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>_I_ know what it takes to get the results posted above. I won't say to protect >>the guilty, however. > >???? > >i dont understand what you mean. > >CSTal on k6-3 easily plays this strong, at 40/120. >do you think the results are faked or what do you think ? I think that (a) the results are not always reproducible; (b) beating crafty by 1 game in a 10 game match is hardly conclusive; (c) beating crafty by 1 game in a 10 game match hardly is incontrovertible evidence that a "new paradigm" has been found and is working; (d) personal observation of the program by myself did not find it to be anywhere near invincible; (e) I didn't see a thing that says that as the machines get faster, it gets better than the opponent. Crafty responds _well_ to faster hardware also. Equally as well, at least, IMNSHO... I would rather see 100 games. 10 is no better than rolling the dice and declaring a winner. -------------------you wrote----------------------- i have asked rudolf if he can send me all his games. he has sent me instantly a chess-base file with 170 (almost) autoplayed 40/120 tournament-games. if you want, i could sent it to you (and anybody else who is interested) via email, zipped up. as you can see from the short-list, cstal has not so many problems against stupid programs, it has more problems against passive or intelligent programs. if you want i can translate Chess Tal 2.03 gegen die Anderen Hardware: 2 x AMD-K6/III-450 je 256 MB SDRAM Motherboard: 2 x EP-MVP3G 1MB Cache Bücher, Tablebases und Talk auf Platte. Je 10 Autoplayer-Partie 40/120 + 20/60 Rest 30 Gespielt werden nur Einzelpartien mit wechselnder Farbverteilung. Beide Rechner werden nach jeder Partie neu gebootet um evtl. Fehler durch TBS im Cache ( Speicherfreigabe W95/98 ! ) zu vermeiden. Chess Tal 2.03 mit opening.bok + large.book. Einstellung Strength Hashtables: Main Hash 131.072 kB, Pawn Hash 65.536 kB Crafty 17.10 mit Powerbook 2000 Hashtables 128 MB Fritz 6.0a mit PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 184 MB Fritz 5.32 mit PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 184 MB Fritz 5.00 mit PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 131072 kB Junior 6.0 mit jbook.ctg, Hashtables 184 MB Nimzo 7.32 mit nz7book.ctg, Hashtables 184320 kB Nimzo`99 mit nz7book.ctg, Hashtables 18448 kB Nimzo 2000 mit Standartbuch, Hashtables 184 MB Hiarcs 7.32 mit Bookupdate ( General.ctg + Hiarcsbook ) Hashtables 188416 kB Shredder 4.0 mit shredder.bk7 Hashtabellen 96 MB, Bewertungtabellen 32 MB Genius 6.5 mit Mainbook.gbd Hashtables 128 MB Century mit Rebel.mvs und 60 MB Hashtables ohne Maus Century 1.2 mit Rebel.mvs und 60 MB Hashtables. Reiner DOS-Mod Hiarcs 7.01 Eröffnung Turnier. Hashtables 65472 kB. Reiner DOS-Mod ohne Maus MChess Pro 8.0 Turnierbuch + M-Chess-Buch 61440 kB Hashtables DOS-Mod ohne Maus Ergebnis: Chess Tal 2.03 - Crafty 17.10 ------------ 4 zu 3 und 3 x Remis = 5.5 zu 4.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 6.0a -------------- 4 zu 5 und 1 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 5.32 -------------- 2 zu 3 und 5 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 5.00 -------------- 2 zu 3 und 5 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Junior 6.0 -------------- 2 zu 3 und 5 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo 7.32 -------------- 3 zu 5 und 2 x Remis = 4.0 zu 6.0 Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo`99 ---------------- 2 zu 3 und 5 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo 2000 -------------- 4 zu 3 und 3 x Remis = 5.5 zu 4.5 * Chess Tal 2.03 - Hiarcs 7.32 ------------- 2 zu 5 und 3 x Remis = 3.5 zu 6.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Hiarcs 7.01 ------------- 2 zu 7 und 1 x Remis = 2.5 zu 7.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Shredder 4.0 ------------ 1 zu 6 und 3 x Remis = 2.5 zu 7.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Genus 6.5 --------------- 2 zu 5 und 3 x Remis = 3.5 zu 6.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Rebel Century ----------- 7 zu 1 und 2 x Remis = 8.0 zu 2.0 Chess Tal 2.03 - Rebel Century 1.2 ------- 1 zu 7 und 2 x Remis = 2.0 zu 8.0 Chess Tal 2.03 - MChess Pro 8.0 ---------- 2 zu 6 und 2 x Remis = 3.0 zu 7.0 * Anmerkung: A = Autoplayer H = von Hand gespielt, Alg = alle Lernfiles gelöscht. Wird fortgesetzt. Grüße aus München Rudolf Klamert --------translation----------------- Chess Tal 2.03 against all others Hardware: 2 x AMD-K6/III-450 with each 256 MB SDRAM Motherboard: 2 x EP-MVP3G 1MB Cache books, tablebases and talk on HD. Each 10 autoplayer-games 40/120 + 20/60 rest in 30' to make sure no memory-problem occurs both machines will be booted after each game. Chess Tal 2.03 with opening.bok + large.book. book setting strength Hashtables: Main Hash 131.072 kB, Pawn Hash 65.536 kB Crafty 17.10 with Powerbook 2000 Hashtables 128 MB Fritz 6.0a with PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 184 MB Fritz 5.32 with PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 184 MB Fritz 5.00 with PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 131072 kB Junior 6.0 with jbook.ctg, Hashtables 184 MB Nimzo 7.32 with nz7book.ctg, Hashtables 184320 kB Nimzo`99 with nz7book.ctg, Hashtables 18448 kB Nimzo 2000 with Standardbook, Hashtables 184 MB Hiarcs 7.32 with Bookupdate ( General.ctg + Hiarcsbook ) Hashtables 188416 kB Shredder 4.0 with shredder.bk7 Hashtables 96 MB, pawnhash 32 MB Genius 6.5 with mainbook.gbd Hashtables 128 MB Century with Rebel.mvs and 60 MB Hashtables without mouse Century 1.2 with Rebel.mvs and 60 MB Hashtables. real DOS-Mode Hiarcs 7.01 opening tournament. Hashtables 65472 kB. Real DOS-Mod without Mouse MChess Pro 8.0 tournamentbook + M-Chess-Book 61440 kB Hashtables DOS-Mod without mouse Results: Chess Tal 2.03 - Crafty 17.10 ------------ 4 to 3 and 3 x draws = 5.5 to 4.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 6.0a -------------- 4 to 5 and 1 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 5.32 -------------- 2 to 3 and 5 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 5.00 -------------- 2 to 3 and 5 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Junior 6.0 -------------- 2 to 3 and 5 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo 7.32 -------------- 3 to 5 and 2 x draws = 4.0 to 6.0 Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo`99 ---------------- 2 to 3 and 5 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo 2000 -------------- 4 to 3 and 3 x draws = 5.5 to 4.5 * Chess Tal 2.03 - Hiarcs 7.32 ------------- 2 to 5 and 3 x draws = 3.5 to 6.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Hiarcs 7.01 ------------- 2 to 7 and 1 x draws = 2.5 to 7.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Shredder 4.0 ------------ 1 to 6 and 3 x draws = 2.5 to 7.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Genus 6.5 --------------- 2 to 5 and 3 x draws = 3.5 to 6.5 Chess Tal 2.03 - Rebel Century ----------- 7 to 1 and 2 x draws = 8.0 to 2.0 Chess Tal 2.03 - Rebel Century 1.2 ------- 1 to 7 and 2 x draws = 2.0 to 8.0 Chess Tal 2.03 - MChess Pro 8.0 ---------- 2 to 6 and 2 x draws = 3.0 to 7.0 * explanations: A = Autoplayer H = played by hand, Alg = all Learnfiles deleted. to be continued. greetings from munich Rudolf Klamert
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