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Subject: to bob: CSTal2.03 data/results

Author: Thorsten Czub

Date: 16:43:45 10/17/00

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Subject: Re: typical: a sensation happens and nobody here registers it !

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Posted by Robert Hyatt on October 17, 2000 at 12:53:05:
In Reply to: Re: typical: a sensation happens and nobody here registers it !
posted by Thorsten Czub on October 17, 2000 at 11:22:31:
On October 17, 2000 at 11:22:31, Thorsten Czub wrote:

>On October 17, 2000 at 10:22:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>_I_ know what it takes to get the results posted above.  I won't say to protect
>>the guilty, however.
>
>????
>
>i dont understand what you mean.
>
>CSTal on k6-3 easily plays this strong, at 40/120.
>do you think the results are faked or what do you think ?

I think that (a) the results are not always reproducible;  (b) beating
crafty by 1 game in a 10 game match is hardly conclusive;  (c) beating
crafty by 1 game in a 10 game match hardly is incontrovertible evidence
that a "new paradigm" has been found and is working;  (d) personal
observation of the program by myself did not find it to be anywhere near
invincible;  (e) I didn't see a thing that says that as the machines get
faster, it gets better than the opponent.  Crafty responds _well_ to
faster hardware also.  Equally as well, at least, IMNSHO...

I would rather see 100 games.  10 is no better than rolling the dice and
declaring a winner.

-------------------you wrote-----------------------
i have asked rudolf if he can send me all his games.
he has sent me instantly a chess-base file with 170
(almost) autoplayed 40/120 tournament-games.

if you want, i could sent it to you (and anybody else
who is interested) via email, zipped up.

as you can see from the short-list,
cstal has not so many problems against stupid programs,
it has more problems against passive or intelligent programs.

if you want i can translate


Chess Tal 2.03 gegen die Anderen

Hardware:

2 x AMD-K6/III-450 je 256 MB SDRAM
Motherboard: 2 x EP-MVP3G 1MB Cache
Bücher, Tablebases und Talk auf Platte.

Je 10 Autoplayer-Partie 40/120 + 20/60 Rest 30

Gespielt werden nur Einzelpartien mit wechselnder Farbverteilung.
Beide Rechner werden nach jeder Partie neu gebootet um evtl. Fehler
durch TBS im Cache ( Speicherfreigabe W95/98 ! ) zu vermeiden.

Chess Tal 2.03 mit opening.bok + large.book. Einstellung Strength
Hashtables: Main Hash 131.072 kB, Pawn Hash 65.536 kB

Crafty 17.10 mit Powerbook 2000 Hashtables 128 MB
Fritz 6.0a mit PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 184 MB
Fritz 5.32 mit PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 184 MB
Fritz 5.00 mit PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 131072 kB
Junior 6.0 mit jbook.ctg, Hashtables 184 MB
Nimzo 7.32 mit nz7book.ctg, Hashtables 184320 kB
Nimzo`99 mit nz7book.ctg, Hashtables 18448 kB
Nimzo 2000 mit Standartbuch, Hashtables 184 MB
Hiarcs 7.32 mit Bookupdate ( General.ctg + Hiarcsbook ) Hashtables 188416 kB
Shredder 4.0 mit shredder.bk7 Hashtabellen 96 MB, Bewertungtabellen 32 MB
Genius 6.5 mit Mainbook.gbd Hashtables 128 MB
Century mit Rebel.mvs und 60 MB Hashtables ohne Maus
Century 1.2 mit Rebel.mvs und 60 MB Hashtables. Reiner DOS-Mod
Hiarcs 7.01 Eröffnung Turnier. Hashtables 65472 kB. Reiner DOS-Mod ohne Maus
MChess Pro 8.0 Turnierbuch + M-Chess-Buch 61440 kB Hashtables DOS-Mod ohne Maus


Ergebnis:

Chess Tal 2.03 - Crafty 17.10 ------------ 4 zu 3 und 3 x Remis = 5.5 zu 4.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 6.0a -------------- 4 zu 5 und 1 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 5.32 -------------- 2 zu 3 und 5 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 5.00 -------------- 2 zu 3 und 5 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Junior 6.0 -------------- 2 zu 3 und 5 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo 7.32 -------------- 3 zu 5 und 2 x Remis = 4.0 zu 6.0
Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo`99 ---------------- 2 zu 3 und 5 x Remis = 4.5 zu 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo 2000 -------------- 4 zu 3 und 3 x Remis = 5.5 zu 4.5 *
Chess Tal 2.03 - Hiarcs 7.32 ------------- 2 zu 5 und 3 x Remis = 3.5 zu 6.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Hiarcs 7.01 ------------- 2 zu 7 und 1 x Remis = 2.5 zu 7.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Shredder 4.0 ------------ 1 zu 6 und 3 x Remis = 2.5 zu 7.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Genus 6.5 --------------- 2 zu 5 und 3 x Remis = 3.5 zu 6.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Rebel Century ----------- 7 zu 1 und 2 x Remis = 8.0 zu 2.0
Chess Tal 2.03 - Rebel Century 1.2 ------- 1 zu 7 und 2 x Remis = 2.0 zu 8.0
Chess Tal 2.03 - MChess Pro 8.0 ---------- 2 zu 6 und 2 x Remis = 3.0 zu 7.0 *

Anmerkung:
A = Autoplayer
H = von Hand gespielt,
Alg = alle Lernfiles gelöscht.


Wird fortgesetzt.

Grüße aus München
Rudolf Klamert


--------translation-----------------

Chess Tal 2.03 against all others

Hardware:

2 x AMD-K6/III-450 with each 256 MB SDRAM
Motherboard: 2 x EP-MVP3G 1MB Cache
books, tablebases and talk on HD.

Each 10 autoplayer-games 40/120 + 20/60 rest in 30'

to make sure no memory-problem occurs both machines
will be booted after each game.

Chess Tal 2.03 with opening.bok + large.book. book setting strength
Hashtables: Main Hash 131.072 kB, Pawn Hash 65.536 kB

Crafty 17.10 with Powerbook 2000 Hashtables 128 MB
Fritz 6.0a with PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 184 MB
Fritz 5.32 with PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 184 MB
Fritz 5.00 with PowerBook 2000, Hashtables 131072 kB
Junior 6.0 with jbook.ctg, Hashtables 184 MB
Nimzo 7.32 with nz7book.ctg, Hashtables 184320 kB
Nimzo`99 with nz7book.ctg, Hashtables 18448 kB
Nimzo 2000 with Standardbook, Hashtables 184 MB
Hiarcs 7.32 with Bookupdate ( General.ctg + Hiarcsbook ) Hashtables 188416 kB
Shredder 4.0 with shredder.bk7 Hashtables 96 MB, pawnhash 32 MB
Genius 6.5 with mainbook.gbd Hashtables 128 MB
Century with Rebel.mvs and 60 MB Hashtables without mouse
Century 1.2 with Rebel.mvs and 60 MB Hashtables. real DOS-Mode
Hiarcs 7.01 opening tournament. Hashtables 65472 kB. Real DOS-Mod without Mouse
MChess Pro 8.0 tournamentbook + M-Chess-Book 61440 kB Hashtables DOS-Mod without
mouse


Results:

Chess Tal 2.03 - Crafty 17.10 ------------ 4 to 3 and 3 x draws = 5.5 to 4.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 6.0a -------------- 4 to 5 and 1 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 5.32 -------------- 2 to 3 and 5 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Fritz 5.00 -------------- 2 to 3 and 5 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Junior 6.0 -------------- 2 to 3 and 5 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo 7.32 -------------- 3 to 5 and 2 x draws = 4.0 to 6.0
Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo`99 ---------------- 2 to 3 and 5 x draws = 4.5 to 5.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Nimzo 2000 -------------- 4 to 3 and 3 x draws = 5.5 to 4.5 *
Chess Tal 2.03 - Hiarcs 7.32 ------------- 2 to 5 and 3 x draws = 3.5 to 6.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Hiarcs 7.01 ------------- 2 to 7 and 1 x draws = 2.5 to 7.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Shredder 4.0 ------------ 1 to 6 and 3 x draws = 2.5 to 7.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Genus 6.5 --------------- 2 to 5 and 3 x draws = 3.5 to 6.5
Chess Tal 2.03 - Rebel Century ----------- 7 to 1 and 2 x draws = 8.0 to 2.0
Chess Tal 2.03 - Rebel Century 1.2 ------- 1 to 7 and 2 x draws = 2.0 to 8.0
Chess Tal 2.03 - MChess Pro 8.0 ---------- 2 to 6 and 2 x draws = 3.0 to 7.0 *

explanations:
A = Autoplayer
H = played by hand,
Alg = all Learnfiles deleted.


to be continued.

greetings from munich
Rudolf Klamert







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