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Subject: Re: After......42.....g5

Author: Enrique Irazoqui

Date: 05:09:28 10/18/00

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On October 18, 2000 at 03:54:08, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 17, 2000 at 20:53:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 17, 2000 at 14:25:32, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On October 17, 2000 at 14:23:38, Chessfun wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 17, 2000 at 14:22:19, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 17, 2000 at 14:19:56, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 17, 2000 at 14:17:46, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Rd7+ Re7 Qb3+ Kf8 Rd6 Nxe5 Qc3 b4
>>>>>>>depth 11 +3.18
>>>>>>
>>>>>>WHAT??? No way (I hope).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Kramnik,V - Kasparov,G
>>>>>>8/5k1p/p1nRrp1P/PpP2qp1/4p3/4B3/1P3PP1/3Q2K1 w - - 0 1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Analysis by Deep Fritz T28:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>43.Rd7+ Kg6 44.Rg7+ Kxh6 45.Qd7 Re5 46.Rxh7+ Qxh7 47.Qxc6 Kg6
>>>>>>  ²  (0.44)   Depth: 11/28   00:00:50  6786kN
>>>>>>  ²  (0.50)   Depth: 12/32   00:01:55  15933kN
>>>>>>
>>>>>>(Irazoqui, Cadaqués 17.10.2000)
>>>>>
>>>>>Still showing
>>>>>Rd7+ Re7 Qb3+ kf8 Rd6 Nxa5 Qc3 b4 Qxf6+ etc
>>>>>
>>>>>Depth 13. +2.84
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll check after Rd7+ Kg6
>>>>>
>>>>>Sarah.
>>>>
>>>>Added score.
>>>
>>>if Kg6
>>>Rg7+ Kxh6 Rc7 Qe5 QD7 Ne7 g4 Kg7 Bd4 Qxe6 Qxc7 Bxf6+ Kf8
>>>+3.88 Depth 12
>>>
>>>Sarah.
>>
>>
>>That eval is too big.  IE this is another example.  I don't recall this
>>exact position but white is either up 1 or 2 pawns (2 I think) but with
>>lots of holes and a queen and knight to deal with.
>>
>>Most programs had this as +1 to +1.3 in this stage of the game.  I became
>>less and less optimistic for white as I watched, as the queen is simply a real
>>pain, and the knight is the optimal piece to have working with the queen in a
>>board with pawns moved everywhere.
>>
>>I wasn't surprised by the outcome, particularly.  If programs say +2 or less,
>>draws don't cause any speculation or bug-hunting...
>>
>>I think the krnp vs kr might have been easier to win than this game was.  Of
>>course, taking time to eat the a-pawn in this game might have cost white more
>>than he thought...
>
>I suspect that the score of Krnp vs Kr of chess tiger is bigger so the fact that
>it is more easy to win does not say that the evaluation is wrong.
>
>Chesstiger did not like kramnik's moves so the fact that the game was drawn does
>not prove that the evaluation was wrong.
>
>The question is if chesstiger can win other programs.
>
>Uri

In this particular case it seems that Gambit's evaluation was a mirage. I made
it play after Gambit's choice of 47.Rc7, giving Gambit, white, and Deep Fritz
beta, black, about 5 to 10 minutes/move each on 2 P600E, DF with 184MB hash,
Gambit with 192MB hash:

Gambit 47.Rc7, +3.62
DF     47... Ne7, +0.94
Gambit 48.Qd8, +4.38
DF     48... Nd5, +0.66
Gambit 49.Rb7 (why?), +4.28
DF     49... Nxe3, 0.00
Gambit 50.Qf8+, +1.83 (failing low)
DF     50... Kh5, +0.19
Gambit 51.fxe3, +1.10 (lower)
DF     51... Re5, +0.19

As seen by Gambit itself, the initial evaluations of this line were wrong.

But I don't think that this is the right way to look at Gambit's evals, which in
these cases are speculative. It is not so much a matter of being accurate, of
seeing the whole line, but of making Gambit go for the attack, and more often
than not it succeeds.

Enrique



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