Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 23:26:02 10/23/00
Go up one level in this thread
On October 23, 2000 at 23:11:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On October 23, 2000 at 19:26:17, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>
>>On October 23, 2000 at 17:49:25, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 23, 2000 at 17:17:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>I know that CST is "lonely" but why group others with it, and say that they
>>>>are based on common ideas? That is one giant stretch for computer chess.
>>
>>let us wait a few weeks - that you can test it too. and others have tested
>>it too. so that we can discuss again on the base of data we all can prove...
>>
>>the beta testers of the rebel team posted
>>results in this forum and got attacked here, mainly from a guy called
>>mogens... they were attacked because - as he said - their euphorical reaction
>>was not based on FACTS and not based on objective-judgement.
>>
>>now this thing won both championships very convincingly.
>>
>>i am sure you will find ways to oversee objective FACTS and judgement in the
>>future, if this helps you to prove your point of view.
>>
>>its easy: you only have to wait until people forget how you attacked
>>a bunch of people who HAD that thing, because you had NO data, and only
>>hear-said, but you know it better than these people.
>>
>>thats something very interesting. That OBJECTIVE and rational people,
>>who found their judgemant on FACTS, do have more insights in something they
>>never tested, than 21 other people who tested it for weeks on autoplayers
>>against all kind of programs.
>>and then jump on those people in an open forum and talking about
>>propaganda and subjective-meanings, campaigns and all the mud you throw...
>>when in the end you had nothing than an opinion. no single data that was
>>NOT posted by somebody else. or hear said.
>>you have not seen a single main-line, nor a score live, and you
>>felt yourself that kind of confident to jump on honest and
>>normal people. I would
>>call this a mastepiece of arrogance. a kind of mega-outing.
>>
>>>One small leap for Thorsten, one giant stretch for mankind :o)).
>>
>>i am sure you will find ways to make the people forget about your attempt
>>to throw mud on unguilty people, just because you did not like the facts
>>these people presented. its not up to you to decide what is fact and what is
>>fantasy, what is objective and what is subjective.
>>
>>If i have nothing, i would close my mouth, be silent and study in my
>>room, what others have to present. i would silently replay their games.
>>and when the programs comes out of the market, i would prove them wrong.
>>and THEN open my mouth.
>>
>>you did it other way arround. very fine. its your decision.
>>
>>but don't speculate that this will be forgotten too soon.
>>
>>>Mogens.
>>
>>gandalf plans. cstal plans. and gambit-tiger plans. all 3 mate-attacks.
>>
>
>
>Those programs couldn't tell the difference between a "plan" and a number
>two washtub. To imply that they "plan" is something so ridiculous as to not
>even warrant another comment.
So Morphy did not plan either.
You don't know how these programs work, but you say they don't plan.
I'm sure you would say the same for many games played by human grandmasters if
you did not know the games were played by human beings.
I think the time for the Turing test applied to chess programs is coming. Take a
random collection of championship games from the same entity, and tell if they
have been played by a computer or a human chess player. I believe it is possible
that some chess programs can pass the test.
And I believe it is possible that some grandmasters fail to pass the test. :)
Christophe
>>wait and see.
>>but don't try again to throw mud on people only because you don't like the facts
>>they present. this is IMO a contraditiction to your own claims and efforts
>>concerning FACTS, objectiveness and "based on the ground of data"
>>- phrases.
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