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Subject: Re: Junior's long lines: more data about this....

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 08:12:59 12/30/97

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On December 30, 1997 at 07:13:39, Chris Whittington wrote:

>
>On December 29, 1997 at 17:41:52, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 29, 1997 at 16:03:23, Chris Whittington wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>But isn't the real flaw with tests that they test for finding solutions,
>>>but now how to get into those positions in the first place. And which
>>>posiitons steered to is very subjective. Tal would steer different to
>>>Tarrasch ....
>>>
>>>Chris Whittington
>>>
>>
>>The gripe I have is with "finding" in general.  IE I'd like to find
>>some positions that are "positional"... where we all agree that a 4 ply
>>search is enough to see "why".  Many positional tests are really deep
>>tactical tests.  Others are positional, but they require deep searches
>>to see the "stinger" at the end, so faster searches again help.  I'd
>>like to see a pure knowledge-based test suite where the "stinger" is
>>not so deep that it takes a deep search to find it.  And where "right"
>>is =+1, wrong = 0, and the score at the end gives some measure of how
>>strong the program is.  SO far I've seen nothing like this...
>
>This doesn't solve the problem of how to test for relatively neutral
>positions. Like the start position, e4, d4, nf3 and various other moves
>are perfectly acceptable, and the choice depends on a bunch of factors,
>importantly what type of chess game you like to play.
>
>How are you going to test for this or any other position where there's a
>'steering' choice ?
>
>Chris Whittington

I agree.  What I'm after is a position that could be described like
this:

there is a 4 ply combination of moves that allows white to plant a rook
on
the 7th rank.  In this position, the rook is a paralyzing force that
black
can't do anything about, except get his pieces all tangled up trying to
defend the threats this rook presents.  There is also a 4 (or less) ply
combination of moves that gives black a pair of weak pawns on a7 and c7,
but these weaknesses are not nearly so devastating as the rook on the
7th
*in this position*.  There could be other alternatives as well.  So that
*if* everyone agrees that the rook on the 7th here is a killer, and is
better than any of the other possible positional outcomes, this position
would be useful to calibrate evaluation terms.  If I had many such
positions,
I'd be "on my way" to a much better-tuned evaluation.  :)



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