Author: Laurence Chen
Date: 11:12:48 10/30/00
Go up one level in this thread
On October 30, 2000 at 13:20:53, Jorge Pichard wrote: >On October 30, 2000 at 12:25:42, Laurence Chen wrote: > >>On October 30, 2000 at 12:15:55, Osorio Meirelles wrote: >> >>>On October 30, 2000 at 09:12:34, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On October 30, 2000 at 07:51:33, Osorio Meirelles wrote: >>>> >>>>>Eventhough I have no analyical proof to support my statement, I am coming to the >>>>>conclusion than any top PC chess program could get a draw against any top >>>>>grandmaster as black using the Belin Wall in the Ruy Lopez ( 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 >>>>>3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Nxe4 5.d4 Nd6 6.BxN pd7XB 7.d4Xe5 Nf5 8.QXQ+ KXQ) I list below >>>>>two possibilities ( the second is stronger than the first ). >>>>> >>>>> 1 -> These programs are likely to get a draw if they treat a draw as a win in >>>>>their evaluation. >>>>> >>>>> 2 -> These programs are very likely to get a draw if their evaluation >>>>>function ( material, position , pawn structure ),is adjusted specifically for >>>>>this opening. >>>>> >>>>>This seems to me a perfect opening for computers to play agaisnt humans. The >>>>>only possibility that I can see for a top computer program to go wrong is in the >>>>>endgame. >>>> >>>>This is not a perfect opening for computers because the target of chess is to >>>>win and not to get a draw. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>I guess I was not specific. What I mean is that if a computer program is >>>playing a match in which it is winning and there are only a few games left over >>>to play, then one possible target is to draw the remaining games, since that >>>will translate into a win of the match, and I believe this opening would make a >>>powerfull weapon for this purpose. My main question is : does anyone believe >>>there might be a chance that good programs can get excelent results >>>with this opening against humans ? We can't forget that before this match, most >>>chess authors would consider white with a solid position. Does that mean that >>>white has good winning chances ? I can´t recall any coment of the games between >>>Kasparov and Kramnik, in which the main analysis point out a variation with >>>good oportunities for white. I seems to me that no one really knows how white >>>can achieve such a favorable position. For those who disgree with me, I would >>>be likely to hear from them,which variations for white they would recomend. >>>Is Kasparov missing something, or is it the opening ? >>I remember when I was studying the Ruy Lopez, the comment about the Berlin was a >>passive variation for Black and that the best result which Black could ever get >>was a draw, and that passive defense was required. This variation is not very >>good if one has to play for a win as Black. In the case of Krammik, he's happy >>to suffer, suffer, suffer, draw as Black. >>My 2 cents worth, >>Laurence > >Kramnik is not suffering by achieving a draw with the black pieces, the only one >who needs to win with White and Black pieces is Kasparov, therefore, Kasparov is >suffering even when Kramnik get a Draw with White. > >Pichard. True, but if this was a tournament, instead of a match play, then the Berlin Defence for Ruy Lopez would be a bad choice of opening. :) Laurence
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