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Subject: Re: Interesting Shredder 5 news!

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 11:56:59 10/30/00

Go up one level in this thread


On October 30, 2000 at 13:59:16, James T. Walker wrote:

>On October 30, 2000 at 13:44:56, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 30, 2000 at 13:09:23, James T. Walker wrote:
>>
>>>On October 29, 2000 at 10:02:24, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 29, 2000 at 08:36:07, pete wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 28, 2000 at 20:15:02, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>I do not believe that it is only low branching factor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Genius has other problems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1)It does less extensions than other programs and cannot extend more than 12
>>>>>>plies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It canot see lines of more than 32 plies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>2)There are positions that it does not understand when other programs
>>>>>>understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Other programs worked many years about improving their evaluation when lang did
>>>>>>not do it and it is natural that other programs got better evaluation function
>>>>>>in part of the positions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>I tend to disagree , at least I suspect your point of view is very hard to prove
>>>>>.
>>>>>
>>>>>It does sound very logical to assume years of work on evaluation has payed off
>>>>>but it is very rare to see Genius judging positions in a ridiculous way .
>>>>
>>>>I expect you to see cases when Genius evaluates positions wrong if you do more
>>>>games.
>>>>
>>>>I saw cases when Genius did not evaluate correctly king attack.
>>>>It falled into a king attack against chess system tal many years ago because of
>>>>wrong evaluation and I expect it also to fall into king attacks against
>>>>gambittiger.
>>>>
>>>>It did not happen in the 3 games that you posted but it does not say that it is
>>>>not going to happen.
>>>>
>>>>There are cases when Genius3's evaluation is superior relative to Gambit but I
>>>>believe that there are also cases when it is the opposite.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>Hello Uri,
>>>I may be wrong but I think you cannot rely on Gambit's score for positions as
>>>they are kind of artificial.  Similiar in my opinion to MChess pro.  Sometimes
>>>the scores are elevated to force the attack when it is speculation.  Only my
>>>opinion though.
>>>Jim
>>
>>You cannot trust also the scores of other programs because they are not
>>speculative and sometimes can evaluate 0.00 without seeing that one side has a
>>winning attack.
>>
>>Uri
>
>Hello Uri,
>Well probably there is no program which gives an accurate evaluation of every
>position.  What I mean is that most programs give an "honest" evaluation of the
>position within their own limitations.  Gambit I believe is one that gives an
>untrue score when trying to force an attack and therefore should not be relied
>on for real evaluation to determine who is winning and by how much.  Again it's
>only my opinion.
>Jim

Hello Jim,
I do not know what is "honest" evaluation of the position.
I do not see something that is not honest in evaluating a positional advantage
as a piece advantage.

It may be right and may be wrong and not evaluating positional advantage as a
piece advantage may be also right or wrong.

Programs with big positional scores are wrong in different part of the cases.

I did not test gambittiger but I guess that there are a lot of cases when it is
right and the other programs are wrong(otherwise it could not be one of the best
programs).

Uri



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