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Subject: Re: the problems are the anons or the unknown people - are they paid ??

Author: Enrique Irazoqui

Date: 10:47:45 11/02/00

Go up one level in this thread


On November 02, 2000 at 13:33:04, Derek Bingley wrote:

>On November 02, 2000 at 11:02:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 02, 2000 at 06:26:47, Derek Bingley wrote:
>>
>>>On November 01, 2000 at 13:51:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 01, 2000 at 12:32:49, Derek Bingley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 31, 2000 at 15:07:29, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 30, 2000 at 19:00:36, leonid wrote:
>>>>>>>I don't know who is making that much money here but the place is more that
>>>>>>>useful. I received few times responses from the author of Rebel. I tried to find
>>>>>>>those responses for a while. In other occasions it was Bob Hyatt that helped me,
>>>>>>>and so like. Nobody did any money on me, I assure you. I gained a
>>>>>>>lot, this I know as fact.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Leonid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i have nothing against people like ed, bob, bruce, amir, and and and
>>>>>>posts here. we know who they are. we know ed is pro rebel, amir pro
>>>>>>junior, bruce pro ferret and bob pro crafty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>we can also find typical patterns for others. i do especially like programs
>>>>>>who play creative chess. therefore i am pro mchess, pro cstal, pro this and pro
>>>>>>that. i am using my own name here. so anybody knows: oh - thats typical for
>>>>>>thorsten, he is against fritz and pro gambit-tiger, cause he especially
>>>>>>likes the attacking style and of gambit-tiger, or the positional style
>>>>>>of shredder, or the  way ferret did it against fritz in paderborn, or the way
>>>>>>gandalf did it against tiger in paderborn, or or or or.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>we can all find patterns to evaluate things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>but the problem is when somebody is only "Josef" and nobody here
>>>>>>knows : is he real ?!
>>>>>>and later josef says many things, can we be sure he is really josef ?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i could e.g. do the following: i take an account with the name Mark smith.
>>>>>>then i do post a lot negative stuff about chess base.
>>>>>>to damage chessbases name here.
>>>>>>nobody knows if mark smith exists. and he damages chessbase.
>>>>>>if i would work for millennium-company, i could make an account as
>>>>>>uri avneri and post lots of negative stuff against chessbase, against rebel
>>>>>>and against cstal.
>>>>>>if i would be working for chessbase, i could daily log in into ccc and call my
>>>>>>anon e.g. Gerhard Sonntag and post a lot of negative stuff about shredder,
>>>>>>rebel, gambit-tiger, cstal...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i could very easy manipulate the tenor of this forum PRO or AGAINST
>>>>>>a product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>nobody could find out , or ?
>>>>>
>>>>>I am replying to your post since it makes important points which are in danger
>>>>>of being overlooked.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>if i have a bigger company, i could pay 1 or 2 guys to make PRO
>>>>>>posts for MY products and NEGATIVE posts against opponents products and
>>>>>>also negative posts against the supporters of opponent products.
>>>>>
>>>>>I've lurked here for a time, and I see many posts with an obvious agenda as
>>>>>above.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Even Mr. Steven Schwartz could pay some people, and let them post here
>>>>>>under wrong name and make positive posts about products , he has to sell
>>>>>>because he has too much in stocks.
>>>>>
>>>>>Do we know that this action does not happen?
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i mean: the manipulation possibilities are not limited.
>>>>>>and all because people post under wrong name.
>>>>>
>>>>>I concur. Manipulation possibilities are unlimited here. There is money to be
>>>>>made and thus motivation for manipulation. There is status to be won or lost and
>>>>>thus motivation for manipulation.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IMO it should not be allowed to post under wrong name.
>>>>>>or strange names (KarinsDad) because nobody knows about these people.
>>>>>
>>>>>My lurking told me that only Mr Schwartz was aware of the identity of this
>>>>>person. That's all right, then? But why should Mr Schwartz be above any
>>>>>suspicion of manipulation. He has as much incentive as any other commercial
>>>>>person. Not that I suggest he does it, of course.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>in a group in reality, you normally ask somebody after a while, if he
>>>>>>is not introduced to you, hello: and who are you ? and maybe he tells you.
>>>>>>if not, you normally ask somebody else: who is this guy over there ?
>>>>>>but in internet ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i don't like the possibilities to manipulate opinions.
>>>>>>IMO many threads here look as if some names are not real and could be
>>>>>>payed people to attack people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Or just somehow interested in manipulations for any reason.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i would like to talk freely with anybody, if he is in charge for what
>>>>>>he is doing. this makes it important to KNOW who he is.
>>>>>
>>>>>I concur. I wonder why nobody felt it necessary to respond to Mr Czub's post.
>>>>>
>>>>>Derek Bingley (2100 Rating)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Perhaps because many of us know Steve well enough to realize that such
>>>>suggestions are nonsense?
>>>
>>>The above is the argument of snake oil salesmen or the purveyors of dodgy
>>>investments to old ladies.
>>>
>>>The remedy being checks and balances. Doesn't the presidemt of the united states
>>>even have watchdogs over him and a constitution to abide to? Total power has a
>>>tendency to corrupt. Not, of course, that I suggest Steve to be corrupt. Simply
>>>that placing him into a position where he is able to freely manipulate can't be
>>>good for him.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>As far as manipulations go, this seems to be about the 10th incarnation you
>>>>have used here.  Do _you_ have an agenda?  Is it _constructive_??
>>>
>>>Yes. My agenda is to restore freedom of expression. imo you are an enemy of
>>>freedom of expression. imo you are concerned too much with your own ego and
>>>status and are prepared to go to any length to protect these. This behaviour of
>>>yours is not conducive to free dialog and additionally holds back development in
>>>computer chess by chasing off alternative viewpoints.
>>>
>>>
>>> If it is,
>>>>then why the need for an anonymous id?
>>>
>>>You may take it anyway you wish. Either it isn't or because you personally use
>>>your censorship powers to delete all effective criticism. Either the critics
>>>will go away or they will continue to fight you. Some do one, some the other.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Chris... I do not delete criticizm.  I have deleted one thread since I have
>>been moderator.  My name was _not_ mentioned in that thread one time.  Your
>>accusations are just as they always have been, namely incorrect and self-
>>serving.  Such a claim is known as a strawman argument.  I leave it to you
>>to produce _any_ evidence that I have deleted _any_ post that mentioned my
>>name, my program, or anything remotely related to me.
>>
>>Ball is in your court.  Back up your claim or go back to your own forum.
>>
>>
>
>The way you got rid of Hans Gerber was by challenges to his identity. Unable to
>refute his arguments, you took the cowards way out and got him banned.
>
>Clear is that you try and keep your finger off the trigger and get someone else
>to do the dirty work, but your signature is all over it, as everyone knows.
>
>Since you like to try and deal with your problems with these ad hominam
>accusations, "Chris" was banned by you five months after he quit posting. Long
>time back and very boring now. "Chris" didn't post a thing for five months, but
>you banned him. Or not. You tell fibs about it. "Chris" complained about your
>action, so you banned him again for complaining, or for "posting while banned",
>according to one of your cronies, even though he wasn't banned, or had quit,
>depending on which Humpty-Dumpty version of the truth you were currently
>spinning. I believe that you have invented two new offences of "posting while
>Chris", or "posting while Rolf", despite the fact neither of these were banned
>in the first place, or were banned, or quit, or again, whichever Humpty-Dumpty
>version of your truth is in for the day. Obviously you think you can get away
>with whatever you want on Bob's Forum.

That's a self-serving and meaningless account of what happened.

>>>>I personally dislike the concept of using anonymous postings to avoid any
>>>>sort of repercussion.
>>>
>>>I personally dislike the concept of using censorship to maintain a fake status
>>>and ego.
>>
>>
>>I personally dislike you.  But that hasn't caused me to ask for your ouster.
>>So again, show _one_ example where I have used the power of moderator deletion
>>to maintain a fake status and/or ego.
>>
>>Time to put up or shut up...  if you know what I mean.
>>
>>
>
>$10,000. Are you man enough?

Is it a matter of virility? :)

>>>> I say what I mean, most of the time.
>>>
>>>Like Humpty-Dumpty, your words mean just whatever you want them to mean. No more
>>>and no less.
>>>
>>>I suspect this is the point at which you will need to use one of the other
>>>moderators to delete this account.
>>
>>
>>No.  Your account likely will be deleted.
>
>Go on then. That will save you from the $10,000 problem.
>
>I shall be proud to be banned. By the moderation committee consistign of the
>Jehovah's Witness, the apologist for ethnic cleansing, and Hyatt.

The usual charmer...

>Go right ahead. Make my day.
>
>
>  Because your original account
>>was deleted when you posted your password here in public.  And CCC has a
>>(now) distinct policy that forbids anonymous/fake handles.
>>
>>You are only here to disrupt.  You tried your own forum.  If failed.  Yet
>>you are still convinced that _your_ approach to things is the right approach.
>>I wonder who _really_ has the big ego problem???
>>
>
>We all have ego prolems, I'm sure.

Some more justified than others?

>Just that yours is the size of a small planet. No room for any other egos on
>planet Hyatt.
>
>
>Kind regards,

You don't mean that either. Pure empty, self-serving rhetoric.

Enrique

>Derek Bingley
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Kind regards,
>>>
>>>Derek Bingley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  And anybody
>>>>can verify that I am who I say I am.  Whether that makes what I say any
>>>>more valuable or not is another issue.  But it does lend _credibility_ to
>>>>it.
>>>>
>>>>In another 5 years this anonymous nonsense will be history.
>>>>
>>>>thank goodness.



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