Author: Ricardo Gibert
Date: 08:10:46 11/03/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 03, 2000 at 10:51:56, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >On November 03, 2000 at 09:51:56, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On November 03, 2000 at 05:51:16, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >> >>>On November 03, 2000 at 04:33:10, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On November 03, 2000 at 03:11:29, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 03, 2000 at 02:47:40, Sune Larsson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 02, 2000 at 20:08:57, Ricardo Gibert wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>[D]8/1R3p2/4pkp1/7p/7P/5PP1/r7/6K1 w - - 10 46 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Why doesn't White play 46.f4 here? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, the position after 46.f4 is claimed by Kramnik's seconds, >>>>>> Illescas and Lautier, to be a known book draw. See Henderson report >>>>>> at TWIC. Instead Kramnik chose 46.Kf1 (? according to Henderson), >>>>>> probably because he didn't know this book draw - or got some OTB doubts. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sune >>>>> >>>>>Thanks. I suspected that this might be a known draw, so I looked for it in a >>>>>couple endgame books, but came up empty. I was surprised that other annotators >>>>>did not write about it. Actually, the commentators for the Braingames webcam did >>>>>mention it, but cast it aside as bad, because it "allows" Black to infiltrate >>>>>White's position via the White squares. Naturally, I could not convince myself >>>>>that their claim was accurate, hence my post. >>>>> >>>>>I think after 46.f4, they could have agreed to a draw and shaken hands. >>>> >>>>I do not think that it is so simple and I expect black to try to play it after >>>>46.f4 >>>> >>>>I did not anlayze the position but the fact that kramnik did not play it proves >>>>that it is not a simple draw(I am sure that he considered f4 because it is a >>>>natural move to consider). >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>Why guess? Analyze it and show me the variation to confirm this. I'll help get >>>you started with 46.f4 Kf5 47.Rxf7+ Kg4 48.Rf6 Kxg3 49.Rxg6+ Kxh4 (49...Kh3 >>>50.Rxe6 Ra1+ 51.Kf2 Kxh4 52.Re1=) 50.Rxe6 Kg3 51.Re1=; 48...Kh3 49.Rxg3 Rg2+ >>>50.Kh1 Rxg3 (50...Re2 51.Kg1 and Black has nothing better than 51...Rg2+ again; >>>50...Ra2 51.Rxe6 Kxg3 52.Re1=) Rxe6 51.Rf3 Re1=. It is not necessary to analyze >>>this so much, but I'm trying to give you plenty to work with. BTW, I'm at work, >>>so this is all "blindfolded" without use of a set. Hopefully, no errors crept >>>in. >> >>There are other lines to analyze. >>Kf5 is the more simple line because the sides trade pawns in the first move of >>black but black can try the plan 46...Ra8 with Re8 and Re7. >> >>White can stop Kf5 in this case by Re5 but black can play Kg7 and f6 and later >>e5 or g5. >>Black may also play Kf5 when the black rook is in different square. > From move 54 on, I inadvertantly had the White rook shifted over to the a-file rather than the b-file. It doesn't really change anything substantively. This is what happens when you analyze without sight of a board. The following is corrected. You're making generalities without any concrete variations. For instance, what happens after 46.f4 Ra8 47.Kf2 Re8 48.Kf3 Re7 49.Rb6 Kg7 50.Ke4 f6 51.Rb5 Ra7 52.Kf3 Ra3+ 53.Kf2 Rd3 54.Rb7+ Kf8 (54...Kh6 55.Rf7) 55.Rb6 Ke7 56.Rb7+ Rd7 (56...Kd6 57.Rf7) 57.Rb5? How can allowing the White King to become active along with the Rook represent a credible winning attempt? I'm not finding any plan for Black. BTW, I'm still doing this "blindfolded". >> >>Saying that black has no chances to win only because of the fact that a book >>said that it is a draw is not convincing(at least it does not convince me). > >This is why I keep supplying variations for you to knock down. You haven't >supplied anything, but conclusions based on suppositions and generalities. >Supply just one credible try. It does not even have to be sound. I'll make an >effort to make it work. I've provided you with a lot of material to shoot at, so >let's see some actual analysis to support your contentions. It does not really >matter who is right and who is wrong here as long each of us winds up >understanding this position better at the end. Let's go! > >> >>I am sure that I will try to play it as black because I cannot prove a draw at >>tournament time control. >> >>Uri
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