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Subject: Re: Tragedy

Author: Jason Williamson

Date: 00:01:43 11/04/00

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On November 04, 2000 at 02:35:25, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On November 04, 2000 at 00:51:18, Peter Skinner wrote:
>
>>On November 03, 2000 at 23:37:35, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>On November 03, 2000 at 15:43:50, Daniel Chancey wrote:
>>>
>>>>CMSilver is 0-2 now.   CMSilver lost to CMKing+ 5.5-4.5 (+3 -4 =3) and was
>>>>crushed by CMQueen+(!) by a score of 7.5-2.5  (+2 -7 =1)
>>>>
>>>>I might discontinue the matches if it's clear that CMSilver isn't playing like
>>>>the Chessmaster Open that it won.
>>>>
>>>>The next opponent is CM6000 sel.10
>>>>
>>>>Castle2000
>>>
>>>This post is not an attack.
>>>
>>>Have you ever done any research in order to figure out what the odds are that
>>>these results could be due to chance?
>>>
>>>Here are a couple of ways to make a decision:
>>>
>>>1) Research an issue thorougly and make the decision you think is best.
>>>2) Flip a coin.
>>>
>>>You are trying to decide which of these personalities is best.  But are you
>>>doing it by making a sound decision, or are you flipping a coin?  And if I could
>>>prove to you that you were just flipping a coin, would it matter to you?
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>Odd Bruce that you take such a stupid stance on the matter, when just the other
>>day on ICC you were stating that one revision of Ferret wasn't playing as well
>>as another. Yet you seemed to think that everyone cared, or that everyone there
>>was seriously interested whether one version was better than the other. None are
>>public, so why should anyone really care?
>>
>>Isn't that sort of the same thing?
>>
>>We were only watching the game, just as we are reading posts on the forum here.
>>
>>Daniel is interested in ChessMaster personality settings, and their strengths,
>>why should he not be able to post about the tournaments he holds with them?
>>
>>If you are not interested, why read the post, and make such a lame remark about
>>it. Just don't read it. Don't come on and be a troll about it.
>>
>>Grow up.
>
>I'm not sure why I write a simple post and get ripped like this.  Please read
>the first line of my previous response again.  I assure you that I didn't put
>that in there for no reason.  If you take my post literally it is not an attack
>on anyone.  That is how I meant for it to be taken.
>
>Perhaps I did not see what was intended, but what I saw is someone doubting a
>version because it got smashed in a ten-game match and narrowly lost another.
>How often do people get this kind of feeling about versions, after matches this
>short?  What are the odds that a version that is actually stronger will lose a
>match 7.5 - 2.5?  These are fair questions, and if we actually discuss these
>questions I may attempt to find a concrete answer.
>
>Since 1998 there have been three significant versions of Ferret:
>
>1) The version that existed from March 1998 until a week or two ago.
>2) A version last week that had different pawn structure eval.
>3) A version last night that had different king safety eval.
>
>If you heard me talking about Ferret having problems "lately", it may have been
>the version that I have been playing with and testing against for 20 months.  I
>think that I have seen enough of that version to judge it.  I don't like the way
>it plays.  The other two versions are attempts to improve upon it.  Version #2
>is actually pretty good, I think.  I base this not upon won-loss records but on
>how I see it placing pieces during games.  It has a different understanding of
>where to put minor pieces, and for the most part I'm pleased about where it is
>dropping them.
>
>The most recent one is unfinished, and I may have disparaged it as such.  Its
>king safety is based upon the idea that I award one pawn to a side if its k-side
>pawns are perfect, award zero if they are all absent, and award some fraction of
>a pawn in other cases.  Anyone who has written a chess program will note the
>lack of open file evaluation, since I did not mention the opponent's pawns, and
>in fact these aren't detected.  Also lacking from this evaluation is any notion
>of smoothing as the program progresses toward the endgame.  And finally, nothing
>is mentioned about the location of any attacking or defending pieces
>(non-pawns).
>
>If I made a comment about this version, it was to explain possible weirdo
>behavior due to the fact that it doesn't really have a king-safety function.
>
>In fact this version has played rather well, too.  I think that it is possible
>that my version for the past 20 months has some problems due to over-evaluation
>of some positional aspects, and that simply ripping all that crap out of there
>may have done the program good.
>
>This sounds like a fair topic for kibitzes or channel 64, doesn't it?  And
>regarding my program not being public, it is true that my program is not
>available for sale or download.  However, I do make it available for play to
>anyone who asks, and I am willing to honestly answer questions about how the
>program works.  This is a lot more public than many commercial programs.
>
>bruce

So, when do we see a public release of Ferret?  :))))

JW




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