Author: Bruce Moreland
Date: 16:09:04 11/08/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 08, 2000 at 16:41:55, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>On November 08, 2000 at 15:59:32, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>I don't know a lot about paradigms, and I haven't read Kuhn's book. In college,
>
>we were tought about kuhn in philosophy here at school,
>but long time ago :-))
>
>>my libertarian roommate Jerry read it, and that was good enough for me. That
>>guy preferred Art Garfunkel to Paul Simon, avoid avoid avoid.
>
>:-))))
>
>>New paradigms would tend to get adopted quickly in computer chess, since it is
>>usually easy to provide evidence that something works. Particularly strong
>>evidence would be a program that wins.
>
>:-)))
>
>>There have been a couple of times where people jumped on a specific bandwagon.
>>People didn't know that full-wdith search could make a strong program until
>>Slate and Atkins did it, and after that point it became typical to write
>>full-width programs.
>
>>There was another shift when Donninger published the null-move article. Prior
>>to that, null move was underappreciated, and after that it became the norm.
>
>tell this richard lang. maybe it helps :-))
>
>>Other programs have had success with techniques that weren't thought to be
>>useful, for instance self-teaching. This hasn't started a wave of self-learning
>>programs yet, but there have been some interesting articles and some interesting
>>attempts.
>
>>We will probably see more interest in speculative evaluation since Christophe's
>>speculative program has been a success.
>
>yep.
>
>
>>All the programs that I know of now are built on a brute-force framework, with
>>selective extension and selective pruning. If anyone can make a strong program
>>that doesn't use these mechanisms, that will cause the most major shift we've
>>seen so far.
>
>>bruce
>
>why should somebody try when bob says: it does not work.
I don't know what you are attributing to Bob. I've heard Bob say that he
doesn't want to see wild and wrong stuff. I don't think he is against material
sacrifices in principle, he just wants to be sure that they are right.
We all can make up our own minds without feeling like we are enslaved to Bob.
If mine sacrifices a piece and loses, big deal.
>maybe all we need is to ask him in forward, and he can tell us if the
>approach makes sense. this could spare lots of time and work.
>
>
>ok - lets get serious.
>
>i am sure you will buy the program, and then you can make yourself
>a picture and we can talk again. ok ?
I've seen it a few times for sure in the past 24 hours. It plays well. I have
seen it try very hard to press attacks, but it hasn't done any long-term
sacrifices yet. Another thing it seems to do is highly prize well-posted
pieces, wherever they occur.
It doesn't play like other programs, and it is very stiff on defense even when
it's getting whacked in the endgame. Here are some games against a Pentium III
600 (mine on it's quad 450 Xeon):
1) 21. Rxe6 may have been a bad exchange sacrifice. Tiger declined it and with
22. Rxf6 sacrificed an exchange that Tiger couldn't decline, and picked up
another pawn for it. Tiger counter-sacrificed but allowed a queen trade that
lost.
2) Lost due to a passed pawn.
3) I'm not sure what happened. I think that Tiger might have sacrificed a pawn
or two, but it didn't do anything other than create a minor speed bump.
4) Tiger attacked well but I think my program had survived. By move 30 or so it
was very dead and knew it.
5) Ferret thought that 25. Nxb7 was winning some pawns and a rook for two pieces
(this is probably poorly adjusted these days), and accidentally won a whole
piece and a pawn.
6) Ferret almost gets mated in book, ends up ahead a really bad pawn in a R+P
ending, but survives to draw.
[Event "ICC 5 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2000.11.08"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Otter"]
[Black "PowerChess"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "3017"]
[BlackElo "2850"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann: Steinitz variation"]
[ECO "B17"]
[NIC "CK.08"]
[Time "13:32:01"]
[TimeControl "300+0"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Nf3 Ngf6 6. Nxf6+ Nxf6 7. Ne5
Nd7 8. Nf3 Nf6 9. h3 Bf5 10. Bd3 Bxd3 11. Qxd3 e6 12. Bd2 Bd6 13. O-O-O O-O
14. g3 c5 15. Bg5 Be7 16. Qb3 Nd5 17. Bxe7 Qxe7 18. Rhe1 Qc7 19. dxc5 Qxc5
20. Nd4 Rfd8 21. Rxe6 Nf6 22. Rxf6 gxf6 23. Qxb7 Rab8 24. Qe4 Qb6 25. Qg4+
Kh8 26. b3 Qc5 27. Rd3 Rbc8 28. c3 a5 29. Kb2 a4 30. Qf4 Rd6 31. Re3 axb3
32. axb3 Ra6 33. Qf5 Qa3+ 34. Kc2 Rd8 35. Kd2 Qa1 36. Rd3 Rxd4 37. cxd4 Ra2+
38. Ke3 Qe1+ 39. Kf4 Rxf2+ 40. Rf3 Rxf3+ 41. Kxf3 Qd1+ 42. Kg2 Qxd4 43. Qc8+
Kg7 44. Qg4+ Qxg4 45. hxg4 Kf8 46. Kf3 Ke7 47. Kf4 Ke6 48. b4 h6 49. b5 f5
50. b6 Kd6 51. Kxf5 Kc6 52. b7 Kxb7 53. Kf6 Kc6 54. Kxf7 Kd5 55. Kg7 h5 56.
gxh5 Ke4 57. g4 Kf4 58. Kf6 Kxg4 59. h6 Kf4 60. h7 Ke4 61. h8=Q Kd4 62. Qh3
Ke4 63. Qc3 Kd5 64. Qb4 Kc6 65. Ke6 Kc7 66. Qb5 Kc8 67. Kd6 Kd8 68. Qd7#
{Black checkmated}
1-0
[Event "ICC 5 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2000.11.08"]
[Round "-"]
[White "PowerChess"]
[Black "Otter"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2841"]
[BlackElo "3026"]
[Opening "Queen's Indian: Miles variation"]
[ECO "E12"]
[NIC "QI.02"]
[Time "13:41:01"]
[TimeControl "300+0"]
1. Nf3 Nf6 2. d4 e6 3. c4 b6 4. Bf4 Bb7 5. e3 Be7 6. h3 O-O 7. Nc3 d5 8.
cxd5 exd5 9. Bd3 c5 10. O-O Nc6 11. Ne5 a6 12. Qf3 Nb4 13. Bf5 Re8 14. dxc5
bxc5 15. Rfd1 Qb6 16. b3 d4 17. Ne4 Bxe4 18. Bxe4 Nxe4 19. Qxe4 dxe3 20. a3
exf2+ 21. Kf1 Bf6 22. axb4 Bxe5 23. Bxe5 Qe6 24. Rd5 f6 25. bxc5 fxe5 26.
Kxf2 Re7 27. Kg1 Rf8 28. Rf1 Rxf1+ 29. Kxf1 g6 30. Ke2 Re8 31. Qc4 Kh8 32.
c6 Qf5 33. c7 Qg5 34. g4 {Black resigns} 1-0
[Event "ICC 5 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2000.11.08"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Otter"]
[Black "PowerChess"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "3002"]
[BlackElo "2865"]
[Opening "Caro-Kann: Forg\\'acs variation"]
[ECO "B15"]
[NIC "CK.06"]
[Time "13:47:14"]
[TimeControl "300+0"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nd2 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5. Nxf6+ exf6 6. Bc4 Qe7+ 7. Be2
Qe4 8. Nf3 Bf5 9. c3 Bd6 10. O-O O-O 11. Re1 Qd5 12. c4 Qe6 13. Nh4 Re8 14.
Bd2 Qc8 15. Nxf5 Qxf5 16. Qb3 Nd7 17. Qxb7 Rec8 18. h3 Rab8 19. Qxa7 Ra8 20.
Qb7 Rab8 21. Qa7 Ra8 22. Bg4 Qxf2+ 23. Kxf2 Rxa7 24. b4 h5 25. Bxh5 Ra3 26.
Re3 Ra4 27. Bg4 Rd8 28. Bd1 Ra6 29. a4 Bf4 30. Re2 Bxd2 31. Rxd2 Rb8 32. Rb2
Nb6 33. Rbb1 Rba8 34. a5 Nxc4 35. Be2 Nd6 36. Bxa6 Rxa6 37. Re1 Kf8 38. Rac1
g6 39. g4 f5 40. Re5 Ne4+ 41. Kg2 Nf6 42. gxf5 gxf5 43. Rec5 Nd5 44. b5 Rxa5
45. bxc6 Ra2+ 46. R1c2 Rxc2+ 47. Rxc2 Nc7 48. Rf2 Nd5 49. Kg3 f4+ 50. Rxf4
Ke7 51. h4 Kf8 52. h5 Kg7 53. h6+ Kg6 54. c7 Nxc7 55. h7 Kg7 56. Rxf7+ Kxf7
57. h8=Q Ke7 58. Qe5+ Kd8 59. d5 Ne8 60. Kf3 Kd7 61. Qe6+ Kd8 62. d6 Nxd6
63. Qxd6+ Ke8 64. Qc7 Kf8 65. Kf4 Ke8 66. Kf5 Kf8 67. Kf6 Ke8 68. Qc8#
{Black checkmated}
1-0
[Event "ICC 5 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2000.11.08"]
[Round "-"]
[White "PowerChess"]
[Black "Otter"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2855"]
[BlackElo "3012"]
[Opening "English: four knights, 4.e3"]
[ECO "A28"]
[NIC "EO.06"]
[Time "13:56:46"]
[TimeControl "300+0"]
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. e3 Be7 5. a3 O-O 6. Qc2 d6 7. h3 a5 8. d4
exd4 9. exd4 d5 10. c5 Re8 11. Be3 Bd7 12. Bb5 h5 13. O-O Rf8 14. Ng5 g6 15.
Bd3 Kg7 16. f4 b6 17. cxb6 cxb6 18. Rfe1 Rc8 19. Rac1 Bd6 20. Qb3 Ne7 21. g3
Rc6 22. Bb5 Rc7 23. Bxd7 Rxd7 24. Nb5 Nf5 25. Bf2 Bb8 26. Rc6 h4 27. g4 Bxf4
28. gxf5 Bxg5 29. Kg2 Ne4 30. Qf3 Rb7 31. Nc3 Bd2 32. Nxe4 dxe4 33. Rxe4 Rc7
34. Bxh4 g5 35. f6+ Kh6 36. d5 Rxc6 37. dxc6 Bf4 38. Re7 Qd4 39. Bf2 Qxf6
40. Rd7 Qxb2 41. c7 Kg7 42. Qe4 Be5 43. h4 Kg8 44. hxg5 b5 45. g6 fxg6 46.
Qxg6+ Bg7 47. Rf7 Qc3 48. Rxf8+ {Black resigns} 1-0
[Event "ICC 5 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2000.11.08"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Otter"]
[Black "PowerChess"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2989"]
[BlackElo "2878"]
[Opening "Alekhine's defense: modern variation, 4...Bg4"]
[ECO "B05"]
[NIC "AL.01"]
[Time "14:05:26"]
[TimeControl "300+0"]
1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 Bg4 5. Be2 e6 6. O-O Be7 7. h3 Bh5 8. c4
Nb6 9. Nc3 O-O 10. Be3 d5 11. cxd5 Nxd5 12. Qb3 Nb6 13. Rfd1 c6 14. Ne4 Qc8
15. Bg5 Qd8 16. Bxe7 Qxe7 17. Nd6 Rd8 18. Rdc1 Rd7 19. Qd1 Bxf3 20. Bxf3 Na6
21. a3 Rb8 22. Qd2 Nc7 23. a4 Qd8 24. Qa5 Nc8 25. Nxb7 Rxb7 26. Bxc6 Rb6 27.
Bxd7 Qxd7 28. Qc3 Rb7 29. a5 Ne7 30. a6 Nxa6 31. Rxa6 h6 32. Qc5 Nf5 33.
Qc8+ Kh7 34. Qxd7 Rxd7 35. Rca1 Kg6 36. R1a4 Rd5 37. Kf1 Nxd4 38. Rd6 Nb5
39. Rxd5 exd5 40. Ra5 a6 41. Rxa6+ Kf5 42. Ra5 Nc7 43. Rc5 Ne6 44. Rxd5 Nf4
45. Rd7 Ke6 46. Rb7 Nd3 47. b4 Nxe5 48. b5 Kd6 49. f4 Nd7 50. Ke2 g6 51. Ke3
f6 52. g4 Ke6 53. Rc7 Kd6 54. Rc6+ Kd5 55. g5 hxg5 56. fxg5 fxg5 57. Rxg6
Kc5 58. b6 Nxb6 59. Rxg5+ Kc4 60. h4 Nd5+ 61. Kf3 Nf6 62. h5 Nxh5 63. Rxh5
Kd4 64. Rg5 Kd3 65. Rg4 Kd2 66. Rd4+ Kc2 67. Ke2 Kc3 68. Re4 Kc2 69. Re3 Kc1
70. Kd3 Kb2 71. Kd2 Ka1 72. Rb3 Ka2 73. Kc2 Ka1 74. Ra3# {Black checkmated}
1-0
[Event "ICC 5 0"]
[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2000.11.08"]
[Round "-"]
[White "PowerChess"]
[Black "Otter"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "2867"]
[BlackElo "3000"]
[Opening "English: four knights, Stean variation"]
[ECO "A28"]
[NIC "EO.05"]
[Time "14:14:20"]
[TimeControl "300+0"]
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Nf3 Nc6 4. e3 Bb4 5. Qc2 O-O 6. Nd5 Re8 7. Qf5 d6 8.
Nxf6+ gxf6 9. Qh5 d5 10. a3 Bf8 11. d4 Bg7 12. cxd5 Qxd5 13. Bd3 f5 14. Bb1
Qd6 15. Nh4 exd4 16. Nxf5 Bxf5 17. Bxf5 Qh6 18. Qxh6 Bxh6 19. Bd7 Re7 20.
Bxc6 bxc6 21. O-O dxe3 22. Bxe3 Bxe3 23. fxe3 Rxe3 24. Rac1 Re6 25. Rc2 a5
26. Rf5 a4 27. Rf4 Kf8 28. g3 Ra5 29. Rcf2 Re7 30. Kg2 Rd7 31. Rc4 c5 32.
Rh4 Kg8 33. Kh3 Rd4 34. Rh5 Rd8 35. Rg5+ Kf8 36. Rgf5 Rd7 37. Rf6 Kg7 38.
Rc6 h6 39. Rcf6 Re7 40. Kg2 Ra7 41. Rc6 Re5 42. Rc2 Rd5 43. Kf3 Rb7 44. Ke4
Rg5 45. Rf2 h5 46. Rc2 Kf8 47. Kd3 Ke8 48. Re2+ Kd8 49. Kc4 Rg4+ 50. Kxc5 h4
51. gxh4 Rxh4 52. Rf6 Rh5+ 53. Kd4 Rh4+ 54. Kc3 c5 55. Kc2 Rc4+ 56. Kd3 Rd4+
57. Ke3 Re7+ 58. Kf2 Rxe2+ 59. Kxe2 Rh4 60. Rxf7 Rxh2+ 61. Rf2 Rxf2+ 62.
Kxf2 Ke7 63. Ke3 Kd6 64. Kd3 Kc7 65. Kc3 Kd7 66. b4 axb3 67. Kxb3 Kc6 68.
Kc4 Kb6 69. a4 Ka5 70. Kb3 c4+ 71. Ka3 c3 72. Kb3 c2 73. Kxc2 Kxa4
{Game drawn because neither player has mating material}
1/2-1/2
>in the meantime, where is my art garfunkel cd ?! :-)))
Gag.
bruce
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