Author: Chessfun
Date: 18:15:39 11/10/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 09, 2000 at 12:08:45, Christophe Theron wrote: >On November 09, 2000 at 02:23:44, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On November 08, 2000 at 21:24:48, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On November 08, 2000 at 12:36:59, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote: >>> >>>>On November 07, 2000 at 14:53:51, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 07, 2000 at 12:25:35, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Based mainly on tournament results. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>So you base your judgement that Shredder is the best program on 9 games played >>>>>back in August??? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>Hi Christophe! >>>>You know very well it has been more than nine games, Shredder has won several >>>>tournaments in the last two years (it has just won CCT2). Of course it has been >>>>previous versions of Shredder, but I have no reason to believe Shredder 5 will >>>>be weaker. >>> >>> >>> >>>If those previous versions were that superior, why don't we see them on top of >>>the SSDF list for example? Shredder 4 is currently number 4. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> I do not really pay attention to private >>>>>>testing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>You don't need to, of course, if you believe that 9 games are enough to tell >>>>>which program is better. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>One tournament is not enough, of course. Perhaps I should emphazise the plural >>>>in "tournament results". >>>>Even several tournaments are not enough to determine objectively with certainty >>>>which program is stronger, but they are enough to influence my own personal >>>>subjective opinion. >>>>Thousands of privately played games have little impact in my opinion. I hope my >>>>position is now clear. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>What is the difference between tournaments and privately played games? Do you >>>think the SSDF games are privately played? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>>> I follow tournaments in which the authors are directly involved, like >>>>>>the ICCA tournaments, the IPCCC, the French championship (congratulations!), the >>>>>>Dutch open (congratulations again!), the Spanish championship (I have not heard >>>>>>from it in a long time, but I think you won the last one... congratulations!), >>>>>>and the CCT. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>So why don't you say that Gambit Tiger is the best program at this time? >>>>> >>>> >>>>It has won very convincingly two strong tournaments, and it ranks number two in >>>>my personal subjective list at this time. If it keeps winning important >>>>tournaments it will definitely replace Shredder in "my" number one spot. It is >>>>simply not yet there. But do not worry, I do not think my opinion influence a >>>>lot of people here. >>>> >>>>>BTW I wouldn't dare to say this myself based only on the few games of the French >>>>>and Dutch championship. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>But as the Gambit-Tiger author you should be very careful with what you say >>>>about its strenght, I do not have that problem as I am not involved in the >>>>development of any chess program. >>> >>> >>> >>>I am very careful with what I say about my program. For example, I would never >>>let somebody tell it is 100 elo points above Fritz6 without reacting... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Christophe >> >>I hope that the people who claim that tiger is 100 elo better than fritz6a are >>wrong and it is more than 100 elo better. >> >>I understood that Marcus believes that shredder5 and tiger13 are close to be 100 >>elo better than Fritz6a in the ssdf list. >> >>I asked him by email about shredder5 and his prediction for shredder5 is 70-120 >>elo better >> >>He claims that tiger and shredder earn from time more than Fritz6a and that it >>is the reason for the information that suggest that tiger is clearly less than >>100 elo better than fritz6a(this information is usually based on faster time >>control than the ssdf games). >> >>Uri > > > >Neither Shredder 5 nor Chess Tiger 13 nor Gambit Tiger 1 will be 100 elo points >above Fritz6a. Let's get back to reality, please. > >Now I'm expecting a "how do you know you don't have Shredder 5" question, to >which I'll not even answer, because I just have to wait a little bit and >everybody will see that it was silly to believe claims of a +100 improvement >over the former best. > >It was extremely unlikely that a new program tops the former best by 100 elo >points 10 years ago, and it is now just more and more unlikely. > >I wouldn't be honest if I let people say that my program is 100 elo above >Fritz6... > > > > Christophe I don't have Shredder 5 nor any any Shredder beta programs to state one way or the other how strong can it be. But I would be very surprised if even when Shredder 5 and both the Tiger's appear that they will be more than 30 rating points above Fritz 6a. Fritz 6 seems to be a much maligned program, I'm not sure why as it has been clearly without doubt the best program for almost a year. It is also the one naturally that developers point to in relation to their newer programs as regardless of who wins what Fritz 6 being top of the SSDF is still clearly a target for most to go after. Sarah.
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