Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 13:39:55 11/14/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 14, 2000 at 16:17:34, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On November 14, 2000 at 16:03:08, Ed Schröder wrote: > >>On November 14, 2000 at 14:52:15, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >> >>>On November 14, 2000 at 14:45:47, Ed Schröder wrote: >>> >>>>On November 14, 2000 at 13:34:16, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 14, 2000 at 12:30:08, Ed Schröder wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 14, 2000 at 11:52:43, Djordje Vidanovic wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 14, 2000 at 11:05:16, Jeroen Noomen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 14, 2000 at 07:22:58, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Hi Enrique, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Only one real tournament so far to prove who is 'better': >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Dutch Open 2000: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>1. Gambit Tiger 10 out of 11 >>>>>>>>2. The King 8,5 >>>>>>>>3. Quest (= Deep Fritz) 8,0 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Jeroen >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>No, Gambit is not stronger than Deep Fritz. Besides, you don't even have Deep >>>>>>>>>Fritz, so your statement is based on nothing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>But if you like talking about paradigms instead of "bean counting", you >>>>>>>>>shouldn't become a bean counter yourself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Enrique >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi Jeroen, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>you are wrong. Quest was an experimental version of Fritz 7... Deep Fritz is >>>>>>>different. Besides, the number of the games renders any judgement about the >>>>>>>strength of the programs inconclusive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>*** Djordje >>>>>> >>>>>>Not my logic. Rebel and Tiger were experimental programs to at the last >>>>>>WCCM. No reason to hide behind that. >>>>>> >>>>>>Furthermore (and nobody seems to notice?)... when was the last time >>>>>>Fritz won an important tournament? Fritz is great at SSDF, no doubt. >>>>>> >>>>>>Ed >>>>> >>>>>Come on... Fritz won the WCCC in Hong Kong. Which other programs since won a >>>>>WCCC except Junior and Shredder? Besides, the show off Deep Fritz - van der Wiel >>>>>a month ago and the current games at KC have some meaning too. And yes, Fritz >>>>>has been dominating the SSDF list for almost 3 years now. All together, >>>>>comp-comp and human-comp, is quite impressive. >>>>> >>>>>Enrique >>>> >>>> >>>>Hong Kong was 5 years ago. >>> >>>So? In these 5 years only Shredder and Junior won a WCCC. Does it mean all the >>>other programs are not up to Shredder and Junior? >>> >>>>Take the main important tournaments of the last 2-3 years and start >>>>counting the scores and make an overview. Tournaments: Thuringen, >>>>Paderborn, Debrecen, Dutch Open, WCC. What you get is a quite different >>>>list than the SSDF. >>>> >>>>Ed >>> >>>So? >>> >>>Ed, what's your point? What does it mean to you what you say above? >>> >>>Enrique >> >>My point is of course between the lines as I am not the right person >>to talk about this issues. > >But you do talk about it, so how about making your point explicit, instead of >"between the lines." Okay. >> Let me say it this way, if you believe the >>SSDF list is the whole truth and nothing but the truth then Fritz has >>sound papers. If you believe in other data too than things are not so >>clear. > >Which data? Already told you (see above), okay again: Take the main important tournaments of the last 2-3 years and start counting the scores and make an overview. Tournaments: Thuringen, Paderborn, Debrecen, Dutch Open, WCC. What you get is a quite different list than the SSDF. The point is that the saying "Fritz is the strongest" is mainly based on Fritz top position on SSDF. Fine with me if you believe that. But if you count other data (Thuringen, Paderborn, Debrecen, Dutch Open, WCC) the picture changes. Since I believe in the other data too for me it is not so clear who the strongest is. That's all I had to say. Ed >There are many pieces of information. Let's start with some of the >most recent that come to mind immediately: >In the last WCCC played in London a few months ago, Shredder and Fritz finished >ahead and were the only two that didn't lose a game, in spite of being the only >ones, together with Nimzo, that didn't play against the 2 weak programs. Fritz >ended up second, half a point behind Shredder. All other programs did worse. >Does this mean to you that Junior and Century and Tiger are weaker? Obviously >not proven, given the few games played. So when in other tournaments consisting >of few games Fritz finishes behind some others the result is equally meaningful, >or equally meaningless. > >We all know what van der Wiel means to computer programs. Deep Fritz won against >him 3-1, +2 -2, without losing a game. Take a look at what is going on right now >at KC. And before, Fritz' PR at the Dutch Championship was 2600, not counting >the boycott games. Now, all this must have a meaning regarding Fritz' ability to >play chess, a meaning that has little to do with your account of its failed >performance in recent years. And please notice that I am only mentioning >manually played games. > >And yes, Fritz dominates clearly the SSDF list, the very best comp-comp >reference there is. I am not at all surprised. > >Enrique
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.