Author: Uri Blass
Date: 17:24:14 11/14/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 14, 2000 at 19:37:17, Thorsten Czub wrote: >On November 14, 2000 at 16:59:28, Ed Schröder wrote: > >>I think your anti-monopoly attitude would forbid that. > >no. >when it is good IMO, i say so. i will say: the program is good, >but i don't like the methods of the company or the monopoly-behaviour >of the company. > >if windows e.g. would be good from my point of view, i would say so. >fritz e.g. gets stronger and stronger. >and still it remains dump. >it begins good but then the 0.00 stage will come and fritz loses in those >moments. >what shall i do with a program that is good but has ~ 0.00 scores in >many situations that i cannot use it as analyzing instrument. > >for how long is this ~ 0.00 (-0.03, -0.06, +0.03 ...) behaviour >in Fritz ? This behaviour of 0.00 is also in other programs. I looked at a game that gandalf4.32 lost against Shredder4 in the ssdf games and it showed scores close to 0.00 in the following position(gandalf was white) [D]2B5/2r5/8/4n3/3k4/7K/5N2/8 w - - 0 1 Gandalf lost the game later. > >long long long. >and it does not change. each year, each championship i sit there >or watch fritz in internet and it says: draw ! >when in fact the position is everything but NOT draw. > >funny ! > >this way fritz cannot make progress. >because it does not know what happens on board. > >each championship. i can show you on video-tape ! >i have the 0.00 score and wüllenwebers face and feists face and >i do even ask them: whats this score on your screen. does fritz really >believe it is a draw :-)))) > >and ferret says big score and the position looks dead against fritz and >dump fritz ? > >of course matthias (no matter which one) is in bad mood. >therefore i have this video-stuff. to document it. > >when my computerchess-friends are here, we take out the videos >and we all watch. > >big fun. > >maybe one day i snip the best scenes and make a cd: > >fritz best moments ... very near but failed in the end :-))) > >what a pity that i had no video 1993 in munich when mark won ... > > > >>I had a good >>look at F6 and then F6a and it clearly plays better positional chess >>than previous versions. Have you not seen that? Come on... > >yes. but then comes draw-score and you see opponent programs makes fail-high >or increases score. and fritz still sees nothing. > >how do you want to win this way. > >it is as if you drive car, 180 km/h and suddenly get blind !!!! >you will lose this game and crah on the motorway ! > >good for us that things never change. i can imagine next championship: > >shredder says +0.87 and fritz9 experimental says 0.00 or -0.03 and >has another black hole day. > >>Understood but you did not deny or confirm my above point and that >>using Gambit Tiger to fight the bad boys from ChessBase is hurting >>the good work Christophe has done as the discussion is now in a state >>it might backfire badly on Christophe. > >i don't think so. gambit tiger IS different. >the problem you have in the moment is that many people >from the chessbase frontier make anti-rebel campaign. >you know it. i know it. but we cannot name them. we would >be thrown out of this club. > >i can tell you excactly who it is and also WHY. > >look, they waited until gambit-tiger is out. then they bought it. >now they tune for the ssdf-list on many autoplayer systems >against jeoens book. If they want to tune for the ssdf list they need to tune for many opponents and not only for gambittiger. This is not called tuning. This is called improving. > >and they come out with shredder and november and fritz december >and will have killer lines against jeroens book and rebel programs >will lose in ssdf list. > >easy, isn't it ? the one coming first on the market loses the competition. This is not so easy. If this is the case Ed and christophe can have a secret book when they will give the customers an upgrade some days after Fritz release their program. I also do not believe that they have killer lines in their opening book. There is no proof that playing from fixed positions give worse result for fritz and it is possible to test it. For example it is possible to give chess programs the positions after 10 moves of kasparov-kramnik games and I believe that no program prepared for it. > >you know that there will be many many big articles about new >cb-products in computerschach and spiele. and you know they will >write bad reviews about rebel, as they did in the past. shall i name >the editions of computerschach and spiele where they wrote shit reviews >about rebel programs ? >thats the way it is. > >and THIS is the reason of my attacks against them. > >i have nothing against matthias' or fred. but i want a fair competition. >and what happens here and elsewhere IS NOT FAIR. > >the american and foreign readers from non-german area don't know all this, >because they have no sources, no ideas what happens. Yes,so there is a fair competition in all the world except maybe one country(germany) Uri
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