Author: Gordon Rattray
Date: 04:28:57 11/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On November 14, 2000 at 13:24:45, Christophe Theron wrote: [snip] >GT should handle underpromotions. At least if you give the program enough time >it should find the key underpromotion move. > >One thing to know, maybe it's not what happened for you, but I tell it anyway: >the Auto232 protocol is lousy about underpromotions. With the standard Auto232 >protocol, games will just stop or incorrect moves will be played when an >underpromotion occurs. To fix this, you can set the "extended mode" in the >Autoplayer dialog. When this box is checked, Tiger will try to transmit >underpromotion using an extension of the standard protocol. If the program at >the other end of the line knows this extended protocol, then underpromotions >will not stop the games anymore. > >Can you post the offending position, please? My test position was the following: rk6/p2p4/KPRp4/8/3P4/8/8/8/ w - - Solution: 1) Rc8+ Kxc8 2) b7+ Kb8 3) d5 Kc7 4) bxa8/B Kb8 5) Bb7 and white wins GT doesn't see this. Maybe the stalemate aspect is playing a role, because when I now try other positions involving underpromotions, GT does see it from far off. e.g. I tried the case with promotion to a knight in order to fork king and queen. GT sees this immediately from multiple moves away. >>I've seen a position with one forced move but GT still spent time considering >>its reply?! > > >There are two cases: >1) if there is only one legal move, GT will play instantly. >2) if there is an obvious move that looks forced, GT will play much faster than >usual, but it will still spend a fraction of the usual time to check if there is >a trap behind this "forced" move. Sometimes it saves the day by doing so. Ok, I have to take this one back as I cannot reproduce it. Initially, I basically had a king on a1 being checked by an undefended queen on b2. GT was considering its reply so I looked to see what else could capture the queen, and I didn't see any other captures. Anyway, I'll have to accept I was hallucinating until I can reproduce it. ;-) >>I've arrived at a stalemate position without being told it was stalemate - it >>just stopped?! > > >Can you post the position? Upon further investigation, I notice that this happens if and only if I stalemate GT and not the other way around. It applies it checkmate too (unfortunately I've haven't succeeded in checkmating GT in a normal game, only from a test postion ;-) ). e.g. try Black king on e4, Black pawn e3, White king e1. Play as Black against GT and advance the pawn to a stalemate position. I think the "Statistics" and moves windows give some indication that the game is over, but the normal pop up window is not shown. Incidentally, if GT gives the stalemate, it says "Stealmate" and not "Stalemate". ;-) [snip] >>Switching analysis mode on/off can be flaky. I can sometimes toggle this button >>without seeing any analysis. I often have to use this in conjunction with "make >>computer move". Then, depending on the time control, the computer will move, >>despite being in analysis mode. > > >I have never noticed this. If you know how to reproduce it, then Lex will be >interested. Ok, actual steps to reproduce... i) start with a new game ii) press analysis button on toolbar -> analysis starts to appear in "Statistics" window iii) edit position, and then come back out of edit mode Now I see no further analysis produced. Toggling the analysis button doesn't do anything. >>Sometimes when trying to move a piece with the mouse, if you "miss" the piece, >>the whole board window moves. This can be annoying. > > >That's a feature. You can move the board by just clicking on it and dragging it >around. If you are annoyed by this, you can create another layout in which the >chessboard will have a "window border" (Extra->Options->ChessBoard). When the >board has a "window border", you will not be able to drag it by clicking on it. >You will be able to drag it by clicking on its title bar, like any other window, >and it will solve your problem. > >Maybe you can just choose another layout from the list of available one and find >one that suits you. I looked at the properties for my current board window and it does have a border (I can also see that it has! ;-) ). But it is still possible to drag the board by clicking on it?! Not a huge issue. >>I don't like the method of setting levels. I prefer a dialog with options and >>values. >> >>I can't see anyway of displaying the time for the current move. I only see the >>accumulated time. > > >You can check Extra->Options->View->All. In this mode, the "statistics" window >will keep all the best lines that the program has computed, as they arrive. The >window will scroll. So you will see exactly the time needed for every best line. > >This can be useful if you try a test position for example. You just set the >position, start the program's thinking, and go have a coffee. When you come >back, you know how much time the program needed to find the right answer, and >you even know if it has held the right answer all the time. I agree with your last point - I like to see if/when the best move changed. However, I still cannot tell how long it has been thinking for. So, for example, its last line may be for depth 14 after 1 minute, and it is now looking at depth 15 but not yet produced a pricipal variation for that depth. If I want to manually stop it after 5 minutes, I don't know when the time limit is reached. I know there are workarounds, but "time spend on current move" is handy to see. >>I like how it can automatically save the current position prior to exiting. > > >Me too. :) > >You can optionally tell the program to ask you if you want to save the position >or not on exit. I guess you are not going to change the default behaviour. > > > >>Optionally highlighting the last move is helpful. > > >Yes. I think we should have turned this option ON by default. I think this depends on your usage of the program. Torstein has mentioned that for a human playing against the computer, this can be annoying and it's a fair point. I like it because I play mainly comp vs comp and have a separate board setup. So, defaulting to "off" is ok - I'm happy that I can optionally switch it on. >>I prefer an evaluation score where negative always means "better for black". GT >>uses negative to mean that it is worse off, regardless of colour. > > >It's hard to satisfy every customer. Many people complain if we display the >score always from white's point of view... > >What should we do? I agree, it's not easy. I like Uri's idea of having this configurable so that people can change it to what they like best. This has the slight disadvantage that when people supply GT analysis they have to say what mode the evaluations are in. But it's still a good idea. >>The online help is poor. It is incomplete and vague. This was the most >>disappointing aspect for me. > > >Maybe Lex will confirm this: we are probably going to provide a free update for >the online help by Internet (not a big download). > > > >>Is it possible to reset the opening book learning weights? How should I use the >>dialog so that GT plays the opening as best it can? Learning? Variation? > > >Be sure to check Extra->Options->Books->Use engine books. > >When you do so, the program will play at its best. You will not be able to >change the other settings in the window, because the best settings will be >selected automatically. Thanks. This information is helpful. [snip] A few more minor comments/questions... GT doesn't ponder following a forced single move. I thought that it would benefit the program to use ponder as much as possible. I've also seen it not pondering when it is winning easily, but no mate in sight. How does GT handle 3 fold repetition during it's opening book? Does the "draw score" affect this? Does GT learn not to play this opening again? Example using "ct" book, GT is Black against a "2000" rated player: 1) d4 d5 2) Nf3 Nf6 3) c4 c6 4) cd cd 5) Nc3 Nc6 6) Bf4 a6 7) e3 Bg4 8) Qb3 Bxf3 9) gf Na5 10) Qa4+ Nc6 11) Qb3 Na5 12) Qa4+ Nc6 13) Qb3 DRAW Finally, please don't think I have major issues with GT. Most of my comments are indeed minor. As I said before, and most importantly, GT is a fantastic chess player and I'd recommend it to anyone. Thanks Gordon
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