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Subject: Re: This guy is still not a cheater

Author: Alvaro Rodriguez

Date: 07:32:56 11/15/00

Go up one level in this thread


On November 15, 2000 at 09:05:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 15, 2000 at 01:18:22, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>
>>On November 14, 2000 at 17:25:22, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On November 14, 2000 at 15:08:50, Côme wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 14, 2000 at 13:11:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 14, 2000 at 13:00:53, Alvaro Rodriguez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 14, 2000 at 12:54:00, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 14, 2000 at 12:18:05, Peter Skinner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>After move 18 there is _no_ improvement. I have no doubts about wicker-man being
>>>>>>>>a computer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Being rated on ICC at 1800 is like being rated about 1400-1500 on FICS. There is
>>>>>>>>almost no possible way for that type player to beat todays programs. I would
>>>>>>>>inform speedtrap of his actions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's a very speculative foundation for reporting another player. If he did the
>>>>>>>same against human opposition, his rating probably wouldn't be as low as it is.
>>>>>>>Besides, what's the big deal in cheating on a computer program.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Mogens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It´s a big deal because the program expects to play a human opponent and when
>>>>>>the person who is running the (C)(in this case Rebel Tiger) analyzes the games
>>>>>>played against humans, he will analyze this game too and import it to a database
>>>>>>with all human opponents. So, he will get wrong results.. Allthough, it´s just
>>>>>>one game but if everybody cheats, then the results against humans will be
>>>>>>completly worthless. IMO
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Alvaro
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If you play 1800-level players on ICC, FICS or chess.net, this is just a fact
>>>>>of life.  You _are_ going to play computer cheaters.  There are far more
>>>>>cheaters at the lower ratings (there are also far more players down there too,
>>>>>of course).
>>>>>
>>>>>It is a huge problem...
>>>>
>>>>Hello !
>>>>Wrong again I think.
>>>>How is it possible to have 1800 if you cheat with a computer ?
>>>>If you cheat you have a much higer rating.
>>>>Best Regards
>>>>Alexandre Côme
>>>
>>>
>>>Easy.  5 years ago, you would be correct.  But high ratings now draw a lot of
>>>attention.  You will find that there are just as many cheaters with low ratings
>>>as there are with high ratings.  They just pick and choose who they cheat
>>>against.  I have seen more than one such person get caught, where they
>>>were cheating in only an occasional game here and there.  But the ICC guys
>>>try all the commercial programs in their analysis, and they found a 100%
>>>match between this cheater and one specific commercial program, but only in
>>>about 1 of every 4-5 games...
>>>
>>>He was playing 17-1800 players and playing reasonably close.  He would
>>>occasionally play a 2100-2300 player and win easily.  A pattern emerged...
>>
>>Why is this thread about cheating?  Someone beats a computer and it's cheater
>>cheater cheater.
>
>I don't buy that line of reasoning, and I didn't say that.  I looked at _one_
>game, and was suspicious of the result for several reasons that I gave.  I
>also said that one game is not enough to be sure.  That one game doesn't prove
>that he did or didn't cheat.  an 1800 player beating a 3000 player (rough ICC
>ratings) is unusual.  _very_ unusual.
>
>
>>
>>And the guy's ICC name was featured in the original post, so he is being tarred
>>with this.
>
>
>I didn't look at the PGN, which was unfortunate.  And you are right in that
>respect.   However, I am also not against calling a spade a spade, and in this
>game, to me, based on my (and computer) analysis, it looked a bit fishy.  It
>might be perfectly legit.  Or it might not.

Can´t you check the time per move used by the "human" player in this game ?
More evidence is needed to call him a cheater IMO..

Alvaro

>
>
>>
>>The guy isn't a cheater.  He's someone who played a decent attack against a
>>computer and it worked.
>
>
>I don't think you can conclude that from one game, any more than I could
>conclude that he did cheat.
>
>
>>
>>I like to play against computers sometimes, and I would hate it if I had to deal
>>with a 100-response thread about how some people only cheat sometimes, about how
>>cheating is a huge problem, about how hard it is to detect cheaters, the mate in
>>7 nonsense, and so on.
>>
>>If this thread should be about anything, it should be about not letting the
>>opponent play f6 when there aren't any good defenders and the enemy queen is in
>>the vicinity.
>>
>>bruce



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