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Subject: Re: bean counters - Ignore "MOST" Other Threads And Read This!

Author: Graham Laight

Date: 08:49:51 11/17/00

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Sorry everyone - I missed a thread further down which actually is relevant!

I got worked up after reading Amir and Bruce's replies to your original post,
which struck me as bordering on the irrelevant, I'm afraid.

-g

On November 17, 2000 at 11:31:47, Graham Laight wrote:

>On November 16, 2000 at 09:07:23, walter irvin wrote:
>
>>to me programs fall into 2 list bean counters and knowledge based .
>>bean counters
>>fritz
>>junior
>>nimzo
>>lg2000a
>>
>>knowledge based
>>shredder
>>hiarcs
>>rebel
>>tiger
>>diep
>>crafty
>>king
>>
>>now you would think that the knowledge based programs would destroy bean
>>counters .but that is usually not the case .bean counters are some of the best
>>and strongest .which makes me wonder if trying to put so much knowledge in a
>>program really makes it better .i think that depth of search would count for
>>more than knowledge .
>
>Hi Walter,
>
>I've read the other threads in reply to your post, and I disagree with them
>profoundly.
>
>In fact, at the risk of being insulting (sorry chaps!), I think they're stupid.
>
>What is meant by "bean counting", as used by Chris Whittington (aka Joe Besogn)
>is evaluating a position by generating as many "nodes" in the "game tree" from
>this position as possible, and selecting the move that allows the least worst
>position to be achieved by the opponent. The emphasis is on generating as many
>Nodes Per Second (NPS) as possible.
>
>"Knowlwdge" (or at least what I think people should mean by "knowledge") is how
>much you know about something. It is estimated that human GMs know 50,000
>discrete things (or recognise 50,000 different patterns) about chess. (Source:
>chess skills in man and machine).
>
>Where we have access to the source code for a program, we can make an estimate
>of the amount of knowledge that exists. I have done this for the evaluate.c
>function of Crafty.x (modified 6/1/00) which I downloaded from Dann Corbitt's
>site. I counted 150 discrete pieces of knowledge. I don't claim that number to
>be 100% accurate (I did the count quite quickly), but I do claim it to be of the
>right order of magnitude.
>
>Now, if we accept that both the 150 and the 50,000 number are of the right order
>of magnitude, one would have to agree that the human GM is strongly "knowledge"
>based, wheras Crafty is strongly "bean counter" based.
>
>What the other threads from your post are about, goodness only knows.
>
>-g



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