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Subject: Re: BOB

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 08:08:53 11/19/00

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On November 19, 2000 at 10:00:07, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 19, 2000 at 00:13:53, Pete Galati wrote:
>
>>On November 18, 2000 at 23:57:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On November 18, 2000 at 22:47:33, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 18, 2000 at 21:01:56, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 18, 2000 at 17:30:37, Garry Evans wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 18, 2000 at 16:54:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 18, 2000 at 15:45:32, walter irvin wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>if you had a cray super computer in your house , so your time would not be
>>>>>>>>limited .what kind of chess program would you create?? another Cray Blitz or
>>>>>>>>would it be more like crafty .Also if you played it on ICC what blitz rating
>>>>>>>>would you expect that you would get ? how many nps do you imagine you would get
>>>>>>>>if it were the 32 processor Cray ??? I think it would be about as interesting as
>>>>>>>>the second comming of deep blue .Also what do you think your chances to be world
>>>>>>>>champion with that beast be??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The program would be a hybrid approach.  To run fast on the Cray requires
>>>>>>>a lot of vectorization throughout the program.  Bitmaps are cute, but they
>>>>>>>don't run fast on a Cray without some vector stuff as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>NPS?  CB could do 7M.  Crafty should be able to do the same.  It would
>>>>>>>be tough... but it wouldn't be Deep Blue by any stretch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I think Deep Jr. and Deep Fritz are performing nearly as well as Deep blue
>>>>>>has. NPS is not everything, I think the Software is just as important? Am I
>>>>>>wrong?
>>>>>
>>>>>Short answer:  yes.  :)
>>>>>
>>>>>DB had both good software _and_ good hardware, contrary to what some would
>>>>>have you believe.
>>>>
>>>>Whether or not the software was good is a point of religion, and regarding this
>>>>issue, I am agnostic in the strictest sense.  What you say may be true.  It may
>>>>be false.  I don't think it's possible to know.
>>>>
>>>>bruce
>>>>
>>>
>>>If you know the guys responsible, then you _know_ they didn't do anything
>>>"half-way"...
>>>
>>
>>Considering the brutal amount of computer power behind the Deep Blue program,
>>could they have acomplished basically the same thing _without_ a good programs?
>>Would the hardware have gotten around "half-way" efforts in programming, or
>>would the whole event have fallen on it's face with a "half-way" programming
>>effort.
>>
>>Pete
>
>
>If you follow their evolution closely, the answer becomes apparent.  When they
>first burst onto the scene in 1986, their hardware was quite fast, but their
>software was fairly poor.  But over the next 10 years, there were advances
>on _both_ fronts.  The main difference between the DB that lost to Kasparov
>and the DB that beat him was (a) new software and (b) new hardware to support
>the new software ideas.

If I recall correctly, Kasparov was defeated because DB whipped him, in the
critical game of the match, while both DB and Kasparov were in their opening
books.  Kasparov forgot a transposition and that's what killed him in that game.
 So you need to add that the new DB had a better opening book, too, in addition
to the other differences.



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