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Subject: Re: The Problem with Today's Chess-Playing Programs

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 11:36:24 11/19/00

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On November 19, 2000 at 14:08:06, Bob Durrett wrote:

>
>The chess-playing program USER's perspective:
>
>To whom do you turn to get the very best advice regarding how to play from some
>chess position?  Or to get the best information on openings?
>
>You do NOT turn to your chess program, at least not for the final answer.
>
>Instead, you try to find the answer as given by one of the top-ranked GMs.

No,most of the players have not 2700 GM's as friends so they use the top
programs.


>
>Why?  Because the top GMs are MUCH better at chess than the top programs
>available to most people.  [Most people cannot afford big mainframes.]

If you do not mean to the players above 2700 then you are wrong.
Deep Junior did 50% against players with average rating of above 2700 in the
last tournament time control that it played.

Another advantage of top programs is that you can ask them to analyze a position
for hours.
>
>Also, the chess-playing programs still come up with bad moves much to often for
>anybody to RELY on the computer's "wisdom."

GM's also play often bad moves otherwise they could get better results against
chess programs.

>
>There are still people out there who like to play chess without the help of
>their chess-playing programs.  And many of these people wish to improve their
>game.  After they lose a game, they want to know why.  So, they turn to their
>chess-playing program on their home PC [The strongest possible program is what
>one wants here!], to the published literature [especially games heavily
>annotated by top GMs], and if extremely lucky they consult a very strong player
>in person.
>
>But it is not such an easy thing to consult the literature, especially if the
>critical position(s) which occurred in the games did not get discussed in the
>literature.  For most people, it is also virtually impossible to access top-GMs.
>
>One might argue that the average rating of the rated chessplayers are at about
>the 1600 level and such chessplayers really don't need the help of top-GMs.  No
>need in arguing that point.  It's true enough.
>
>But . . . it is really irritating to know in advance that your trusty
>chess-playing software is going to give you bad advice occasionally.
>
>The current crop of chess-playing software has not yet met the standard of
>playing flawlessly at the top-GM level.

Deep Junior got 50% against top GM's so I do not think that you are right about
it.

  Obviously.  But when that time comes,
>the need for opening books [based on the games of the top GMs] will disappear
>and a human will be able to find the best opening moves from their computer
>programs.
>
>We need chess-playing computer programs which are smart enough to come up with
>opening moves which are as good as, or better than, those produced by the top
>GMs, without resorting to stored opening books.

There are cases when computers can find novelties that are better than moves
that were played in the past.

Kramnik played a novelty against kasparov that programs without opening book
have no program to find.

  [Especially true if those books
>are merely collections of games produced by mere humans.]
>
>And we need chess-playing programs which never play dumb moves, or almost never,
>i.e. dumb only 0.0001% of the time.

I guess that you will see programs beating all humans before you see this
happens.

>
>Until that time comes, there is still a need for improvement in chess-playing
>programs.  Not to play against, but to use for analyses.

I agree that chess programs can be improved and they are improved every year.

Uri



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