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Subject: Re: Wrong in this position!

Author: Oliver Roese

Date: 08:55:03 11/22/00

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On November 22, 2000 at 10:17:21, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 22, 2000 at 00:41:00, Oliver Roese wrote:
>
>>On November 21, 2000 at 14:56:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On November 21, 2000 at 14:45:13, Oliver Roese wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 21, 2000 at 03:25:00, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[D]8/8/2Kp4/3P1B2/2P2k2/5p2/8/8 w - - bm Bc8; id "WAC.146";
>>>>>
>>>>>Searched Move: b6+
>>>>>Right = 1/2 Stime = 10.9 Total NPS = 429381 <time_sq> = 120 <depth> = 20
>>>>>
>>>>>White to Move  Book Move(s): Bc8
>>>>>  Test Position:  "WAC.146"
>>>>>  1.   2.46     0    78031   1. Bh3
>>>>>  1.   2.52     0    78036   1. Be6
>>>>>  1.   2.54     0    78037   1. Bd7
>>>>>  1.   2.54     0    78051   1. Bd7
>>>>>  2.   2.53     0    78062   1. Bd7 Ke5
>>>>>  2.   ++       0    78134   1. Bh7
>>>>>  2.   1.82     0    78343   1. Bd7 f2
>>>>>  2.   2.51     0    78365   1. Be6 Ke5
>>>>>  2.   2.52     0    78424   1. Bd3 Ke3
>>>>>  2.   2.52     0    78496   1. Bd3 Ke3
>>>>>  3.   2.55     0    78525   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. Bf5
>>>>>  3.   ++       0    78826   1. Bh7
>>>>>  3.   2.55     0    79404   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. Bf5
>>>>>  3.   2.55     0    80628   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. Bf5
>>>>>  4.   2.64     0    80953   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. c5 dxc5
>>>>>  4.   2.64     0    83123   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. c5 dxc5
>>>>>  5.   2.54     0    84780   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. Bf5 Kf4 3. Bd7
>>>>>  5.   ++       0    91118   1. Bc8
>>>>>  5.   --
>>>>>  5.   2.54     0    94138   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. Bf5 Kf4 3. Bd7
>>>>>  5.   5.87     0    99653   1. Bc8 f2 2. Bh3 Kg3 3. Bf1
>>>>>  5.   5.87     0   116910   1. Bc8 f2 2. Bh3 Kg3 3. Bf1
>>>>>  6.   --
>>>>>  6.   ++       0   117724   1. Bc8
>>>>>  6.   5.87     0   118439   1. Bc8 f2 2. Bh3 Kg3 3. Bf1 Kf4
>>>>>  6.   5.87     0   161237   1. Bc8 f2 2. Bh3 Kg3 3. Bf1 Kf4
>>>>>  7.   5.87     0   165796   1. Bc8 f2 2. Bh3 Ke3 3. Bf1 Kd4
>>>>>  7.   ++       0   186436   1. Bh3
>>>>>  7.   --
>>>>>  7.   5.87     0   191756   1. Bc8 f2 2. Bh3 Kg3 3. Bf1 Kf4 4. Kxd6
>>>>>  7.   6.64     0   212491   1. Bh3 Kg3 2. Bf1 Kf2 3. Kxd6 Ke1 4. Bh3
>>>>>  7.   6.64     0   212520   1. Bh3 Kg3 2. Bf1 Kf2 3. Kxd6 Ke1 4. Bh3
>>>>>  8.   --
>>>>>  8.   ++       0   221385   1. Bh3
>>>>>  8.   6.45     0   223648   1. Bh3 Kg3 2. Bf1 Kf2 3. Kxd6 Ke1 4. Bh3 f2
>>>>>  8.   6.45     0   223732   1. Bh3 Kg3 2. Bf1 Kf2 3. Kxd6 Ke1 4. Bh3 f2
>>>>>  9.   6.45     0   232656   1. Bh3 Kg3 2. Bf1 Kf2 3. Kxd6 Ke1 4. Bh3 f2 5. c5
>>>>>  9.   ++       0   264037   1. Bd3
>>>>>  9.   8.88     0   295723   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. c5 dxc5 3. d6 Kd2 4. d7 c4 5. d8=Q
>>>>>  9.   8.88     0   304900   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. c5 dxc5 3. d6 Kd2 4. d7 c4 5. d8=Q
>>>>> 10.   ++       0   314109   1. Bd3
>>>>> 10.  14.23     1   495219   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. c5 Kd4 3. cxd6 Kc3 4. d7 Kd2 5. d8=Q
>>>>>Ke3
>>>>> 10.  14.23     1   525349   1. Bd3 Ke3 2. c5 Kd4 3. cxd6 Kc3 4. d7 Kd2 5. d8=Q
>>>>>Ke3
>>>>> 11.   ++       1   529553   1. Bd3
>>>>> 11.  16.49     6  1363057   1. Bd3 Kg3 2. c5 Kf4 3. cxd6 Ke5 4. d7 Kf4 5. d8=Q
>>>>>Ke3
>>>>> 11.  16.49     6  1393518   1. Bd3 Kg3 2. c5 Kf4 3. cxd6 Ke5 4. d7 Kf4 5. d8=Q
>>>>>Ke3
>>>>> 12.   ++       6  1402113   1. Bd3
>>>>> 12.  MATE+    33  9555958   1. Bd3 f2 2. c5 Ke3 3. cxd6 Kxd3
>>>>> 12.  MATE+    33  9738198   1. Bd3 f2 2. c5 Ke3 3. cxd6 Kxd3
>>>>>
>>>>>node_count = 9738198 quiescent nodes = 10482 eval_count = 4534996
>>>>>hash hits = 2251420 hash moves = 342378 pawn hash hits = 4522278
>>>>>node_rate = 290779 null cuts = 935545 exten = 747422 int_iter = 120
>>>>>egtb_probes = 267932 egtb_hits = 267932 fail_high(%) = 93
>>>>
>>>>After 1.Bd3 black can force a repetition of the position with
>>>>1...Ke3 2.Bf1 Kf2 3.Bh3 Kg3 4.Bf5 Kf4 (all forced) and white should soon come up
>>>>with a better idea...
>>>>
>>>>Oliver
>>>
>>>When I play the above move, I get a mate score from crafty.  ie:
>>>
>>>after Bd3, ...
>>>         (4)   17->  51.30 -Mat40   1. ... Ke3 2. Bf1 Kf2 3. c5 Kxf1 4.
>>>                                    cxd6 <HT>
>>>
>>>(which comes from tablebases of course...)
>>>
>>>Kf2 then leads to a mate in 39...
>>>
>>>3. Bh3 is not the move for white however... that leads to a repetition.  white
>>>plays c5 to stay on the track to mating...  Bh3 will also mate, but only after
>>>going through the 2-fold repetition first, and wasting time...
>>
>>I apologize if i was wrong here, but i just cant get it.
>>I saw 3.c5, but after 3...Kxf1 4.cxd6 f2 5.d7 K(e2) 6.d8=Q f1=Q a queen-ending
>>with a pawn up for white follows. Could you (or Bruce Morland) give some further
>>moves of the best line? Is it  a forced queen swap or what??
>>If white simply waits for ...f2 with 1.Bc8 black will never get a queen.
>>It is really hard to believe...
>>
>>Oliver
>
>
>after the 3. ... Kxf1 cxd6 is a mate in 38..
>
>Here is the complete variation after 4 moves:
>5. d7! f2! 6. d8=Q! f1=Q! 7. Qb6! Qh1! 8. Qd4! Qf3 9. Qc5! Kd1 10.
>Kb6! Qf6+! 11. d6! Qd8+! 12. Qc7! Qf6! 13. Qc6! Qb2+! 14. Qb5! Qd4+!
>15. Qc5 Qf6! 16. Kc7! Qf4! 17. Qd5+! Ke1! 18. Kc8 Qc1+ 19. Kd8! Qe3
>20. d7! Kf1! 21. Qc4+! Kg1 22. Kc8! Qh3! 23. Kc7! Qh2+ 24. Kb7 Qg2+!
>25. Qc6! Qg7! 26. Qc7 Qg2+! 27. Kb8! Qb2+! 28. Kc8! Qg2 29. Qa7+
>Kf1! 30. Qa1+! Ke2 31. Qb2+ Kf1 32. Qxg2+! Kxg2! 33. d8=Q! Kf2 34.
>Qd3 Ke1 35. Qc2 Kf1 36. Kd7 Ke1 37. Ke6 Kf1 38. Kf5 Ke1 39. Kg4 Kf1
>40. Kf3! Ke1 41. Qe2#
>
>moves marked with a ! are the only optimal move in that position.  Any other
>move extends the mate or draws/loses...

Thanks,
but nothing abnormal to be find here.
I still believe 1.Bc8 is better and will in the end give a shorter path to the
mate.
Uri Blass posted some while ago a position, where a computer, already a queen
ahead, happily sacrificed it to get a won pawn ending.
Something simliar might had happen here. Unfortunately i do not have enough
tablebases installed to check this out.

Oliver




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