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Subject: Re: extremely nice game with inaccurate :-))) move 30.Nf6+!

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:15:45 11/25/00

Go up one level in this thread


On November 25, 2000 at 20:09:48, Bertil Eklund wrote:

>On November 25, 2000 at 13:27:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 25, 2000 at 11:01:51, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On November 25, 2000 at 10:13:40, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>>><snipped>
>>>>Nf6 is a typical bluff move. it pushes the problem over the horizont.
>>>>a horizont problem. this time a positive.
>>>>+ thats the way the new paradigm programs win.
>>>>
>>>>they see a win or a good move. Nf6.
>>>>they play it.
>>>>like a human beeing directed by ideas and illusions.
>>>
>>>I doubt how many humans will play Nf6 in a game.
>>>I believe that most of the strong players will not do it.
>>>They know that they can have a positional advantage with no risk and they will
>>>be afraid to sacrifice a piece if they do not see at least a forced draw.
>>>
>>>I believe that most humans are going to play Ng3.
>>>
>>>
>>>>creative thinking. there is never really an accurate way to win life !
>>>>but by doing something and having the initiative you often increase
>>>>the chances to win. but - it is risky. if GT would have played
>>>>Nf6 against (say) GOD Nf6 would only have been a nearly forced draw.
>>>
>>>If white can win by another move instead of Nf6+ then Nf6+ is a mistake and when
>>>the opponents will get better playing this move is not going to lead to a win
>>>against them.
>>>
>>>>but the bean counters on the other side of the board are not god.
>>>>they have horizont problems too and this is the reason GT wins although
>>>>it plays smashing inaccurate sacs.
>>>
>>>I believe that the evaluation after search should be accurate.
>>>
>>>My opinion is that not accurate static evaluation can be a good idea only if it
>>>helps to get more accurate evaluation after search.
>>>
>>>When I play correspondence games I expect my opponents to be accurate and if I
>>>find that Nf6+ is leading to a draw then I play another move that gives me a
>>>better chances.
>>>>
>>>>whatever. the games are impressing IMO.
>>>>
>>>>If you have a program that plays accurate, it would e.g. not have played
>>>>Nf6 and other moves, and it would maybe not risk anything.
>>>>it would not risk something because it has computed that this risk is not
>>>>working.
>>>>you get a genius-program. plays boring ,  but accurate. never doing anything.
>>>>waiting for a mistake of the opponent.
>>>
>>>I disagree.
>>>
>>>If there are 2 moves that are leading to a draw an accurate program can choose
>>>one of them that is a sacrifice.
>>>>
>>>>this is one reason i do believe bob hyatt is wrong. he believes if crafty
>>>>is accurate it would play better chess. i don't think so.
>>>
>>>I think that no program is accurate and that no program is going to be accurate.
>>>
>>>If crafty is going to play accurate then it is never going to lose in chess.
>>>The fact that it is losing is a proof that crafty has no accurate evaluation.
>>>
>>>
>>>>crafty would not do anything. like a human beeing sitting in his chair,
>>>>completely
>>>>autistic because he had considered anything in forward and have found out that
>>>>life
>>>>is dangerous and therefore better not move ONE step forward-.
>>>>cause driving in the car is dangerous.
>>>>better NOT drive. and eating is dangerous. could be poisened. and sleeping is
>>>>dangerous, because you have eyes closed. everything is dangerous. so better
>>>>doing nothing.
>>>>and thats what crafty is mainly doing. accurate doing nothing.
>>>>if crafty would be a human beeing, you would call him ill.
>>>
>>>I disagree.
>>>
>>>There are humans who never sacrifice in chess and I do not call them ill.
>>>
>>>Crafty is not accurate and there are a lot of cases when it evaluates wrong and
>>>this is one of the reasons that Crafty lose games(it can sacrifice the king
>>>safety for a pawn because of wrong evaluation function that say that the pawn
>>>has bigger value).
>>>Gambittiger is also not accurate and can do the opposite mistake.
>>>
>>>The fact that Gambittiger is better than Crafty is not a proof that Gambit is
>>>more accurate about it because gambit is better in tactics and also better in
>>>the endgame.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>I think GT is definitely better in tactics.  I don't think it is better in
>>endgames.  It has several important pieces of information totally missing.
>>I have posted a game or two showing serious ones.
>
>Hi!
>
>I almost certain that Tiger is the only program that can compete with the best
>endgamers with TBs.
>
>I have followed a lot of endgames vs Shredder4 and Junior6 (2h/40) and Tiger is
>the only program that can compete without TBs.
>
>Bertil


The positions I am thinking of have nothing to do with tablebases...  mainly
with pawns and lost endgame positions that are not recognized...



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