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Subject: Re: MVV/LVA or SEE - liability?

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 09:56:23 11/30/00

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On November 30, 2000 at 06:25:29, Severi Salminen wrote:

>On November 29, 2000 at 12:45:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 29, 2000 at 11:22:38, Severi Salminen wrote:
>>
>>>On November 29, 2000 at 10:26:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 29, 2000 at 08:23:56, Severi Salminen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi!
>>>>>
>>>>>Robert Hyatt said that when he tested the performance differences between SEE
>>>>>and MVV/LVA he saw a 10% advantage for SEE. Is this 10% really worth it when we
>>>>>consider the fact that SEE might miss some tactical shots, like pins and other
>>>>>check involving sequenses? This might be also true if we use standing pat
>>>>>cutoffs in qsearch, but generally. Has anyone pitted a version of his/her
>>>>>program using SEE against MVV/LVA in a long match (more than 100 games at
>>>>>least)? What were the results?
>>>>>
>>>>>Severi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You didn't read far enough.  _IF_ you also use SEE to weed out losing captures
>>>>from your q-search, you can get a factor of _two_ speed improvement.  That is,
>>>>you will search the tree _over_ twice as fast counting that original 10%
>>>>savings.
>>>
>>>Yes I checked your message again and noticed that as I stated in my "addenum"
>>>message... So, is there any need to worry about pins, for example?
>>>
>>>Severi
>>
>>
>>Think about the q-search.  Are you including moves that pin something?  Or are
>>you just following captures?  It is _so_ inaccurate already, that ignoring
>>pinned/overloaded pieces doesn't make it much worse.
>
>Well, I'm not performing any illegal captures (which leaves king in check) - so
>if a piece or a pawn is pinned to (?) king it can't maybe capture and SEE
>doesn't see that. I ment no other pins. But maybe king pinning situations are
>_very_ rare that one doesn't have to consider them.
>
>Severi

If you have code that lets you try it both ways, there is one way to find out.
My intuition is that even if it's not particularly rare, it isn't critical to
avoid a few mistakes at the tips.

bruce




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