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Subject: Re: EGTB disadvantage for solving probs quick

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 11:25:39 12/04/00

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On December 04, 2000 at 13:45:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:

Did you see my NPS?
i'm missing your NPS for each ply simply.
perhaps a run on a quad with those egtb with diep
would be a cool compare.

>On December 04, 2000 at 13:32:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>Hello here a nightmare scenario when using EGTB,
>>for DIEP that's position #4 from bs2830 testset.
>>
>>Wonder how other progs do with and without egtb on this
>>position. Of course the real problem is that this problem
>>is like a 17 ply problem as there are 5 ply to see then
>>12 checks and it's a stalemate.
>>
>>without egtb it finds by accident the right move
>>quite quickly:
>>
>>Found at most 0 pieces EGTB
>>  Proces 1 starting initialisation!
>>  Proces 1 starting SearchSMP!
>>Took 0.09 seconds to start all 1 other processes
>>anal
>>Analysis mode is on
>>Process 1: engineflags=0 msk=1
>>process 0: engineflags = 0 denktime=10000000 maxtime=10000000
>>00:00 4 (0) 1 -2.48 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8
>>00:00 48 (0) 1 -2.48 Nf5-e3
>>00:00 344 (0) 2 -2.71 Nf5-e3 Qf6-c3
>>++ d7-d8
>>00:00 351 (0) 2 -2.48 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8
>>00:00 672 (0) 3 -5.59 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e4 Qf6xf5 Kb1xb2
>>++ f5-e3
>>00:00 1986 (203) 3 -2.84 Nf5-e3 Qf6-d4 Ne3-g2
>>00:00 4064 (203) 4 -2.86 Nf5-e3 Qf6-d4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8
>>00:00 7421 (523) 5 -3.27 Nf5-e3 Qf6-d4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e6 Qd4xd3 Kb1xb2
>>00:00 16089 (1156) 6 -4.90 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Re7-e8 Kd8xd7 Re8-a8 Qf6-f3 Ra8-a7 Kd7-
>>e8 Ne3-g4 Qf3xg4 Kb1xb2
>>00:01 34606 (3595) 7 -5.97 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Re7-h7 Qf6-c3 Rh7-h1 Qc3xd3 Kb1xb2 Qd3-
>>d4 Kb2-a3 Qd4xe3
>>++ d7-d8
>>00:01 38199 (3622) 7 -5.74 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e4 Qf6xf5 Kb1xb2 Qf5-d5 Kb2-c3
>>++ e7-e4
>>00:01 69614 (13138) 7 -5.11 Re7-e4 Qf6xf5 Kb1xb2 Qf5-d5 Re4-c4 Kc7xd7 Kb2xb3 Kd7
>>-e6
>>00:01 94341 (13885) 8 -5.14 Re7-e4 Qf6xf5 Kb1xb2 Qf5-d5 Re4-c4 Kc7xd7 Rc4-c3 Kd7
>>-d6 Rc3xb3
>>00:02 137922 (14799) 9 -5.24 Re7-e4 Qf6xf5 Kb1xb2 Qf5-d5 Re4-c4 Kc7xd7 Rc4-c3 Qd
>>5-d4 Kb2xb3 Kd7-e6
>>00:04 272255 (28819) 10 -5.04 Re7-e4 Qf6xf5 Kb1xb2 Qf5-b5 Re4-c4 Kc7xd7 Rc4-c3 Q
>>b5-b4 Rc3xb3 Qb4-d2 Kb2-a3 Qd2-c2
>>00:08 646141 (64755) 11 -5.52 Re7-e4 Qf6-a6 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re4-d4 Kd8-e8 Nf5-d6 K
>>e8-f8 Rd4-f4 Kf8-g8 Rf4-g4 Kg8-h7 Kb1xb2 Qa6xd6 Kb2-c3
>>++ f5-d4
>>00:28 2458279 (670662) 12 -6.73 Re7-e4 Qf6-a6 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re4-d4 Kd8-e8 Nf5-d6
>> Ke8-e7 Nd6-f5 Ke7-f8 Rd4-d8 Kf8-f7 Rd8-d7 Kf7-e8 Rd7-e7 Ke8-d8 Kb1xb2 Qa6-a2 Kb
>>2-c3 b3-b2 Re7-h7 b2-b1Q Rh7-e7
>>++ f5-d4
>>01:31 8584391 (2441345) 12 -5.26 Nf5-d4 Qf6xd4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e8 Kd8-c7 Re8-c
>>8 Kc7-b6 Rc8-b8 Kb6-c5 Rb8xb3 Kc5-d5 Kb1-a2 Qd4-a4 Ka2xb2 Kd5-d4
>>01:46 10015648 (2876483) 13 -5.26 Nf5-d4 Qf6xd4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e8 Kd8-c7 Re8-
>>c8 Kc7-b6 Rc8-b8 Kb6-c5 Rb8xb3 Kc5-d5 Kb1-a2 Qd4-f6 Ka2-b1 Qf6-f1 Kb1xb2 Qf1-d1
>>
>>02:16 12914303 (3235142) 14 -4.66 Nf5-d4 Qf6xd4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e8 Kd8-c7 Re8-
>>c8 Kc7-b6 Rc8-b8 Kb6-c5 Rb8-c8 Kc5-b5 Rc8-b8 Kb5-a6 Rb8-a8 Ka6-b7 Ra8-b8 Kb7-c6
>>Rb8-c8 Kc6-b7 Rc8-b8
>>03:12 18248796 (3419808) 15 -4.58 Nf5-d4 Qf6xd4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e8 Kd8-c7 Re8-
>>c8 Kc7-b6 Rc8-b8 Kb6-c5 Rb8-c8 Kc5-b5 Rc8-b8 Kb5-a6 Rb8-a8 Ka6-b7 Ra8-b8 Kb7-c6
>>Rb8-c8 Kc6-b7 Rc8-b8
>>07:34 43579630 (7501954) 16 -1.01 Nf5-d4 Qf6xd4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e8 Kd8-c7 Re8-
>>c8 Kc7-b6 Rc8-b8 Kb6-c5 Rb8-c8 Kc5-b5 Rc8-b8 Kb5-a6 Rb8-a8 Ka6-b7 Ra8-b8 Kb7-c6
>>Rb8-c8 Kc6-b7 Rc8-b8
>>
>>fen
>>Open a Forsythe File fen\bs2830.fen
>>Line number of fen\bs2830.fen ?
>>4
>> # move freq games  score*2 learn ==> huge cache
>>       D I E P  2.00
>>
>>black timeleft=27:46.40.00
>> - = - = - = - =   ...       1    ...
>> = - k O R - = -   ...       2    ...
>> - = - = - q - =   ...       3    ...
>> = - = - = N = -   ...       4    ...
>> - = - = - = - =   ...       5    ...
>> = o = O = - = -   ...       6    ...
>> - o - = - = - =   ...       7    ...
>> = K = - = - = -   ...       8    ...
>>white timeleft=27:46.40.00
>>white to move               type 'help' for command overview
>>
>>clean
>>Clearing all Hashtables...
>>anal
>>Analysis mode is on
>>Process 1: engineflags=0 msk=1
>>process 0: engineflags = 0 denktime=10000000 maxtime=10000000
>>00:00 4 (0) 1 -2.48 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8
>>00:00 48 (0) 1 -2.48 Nf5-e3
>>00:00 348 (0) 2 -2.71 Nf5-e3 Qf6-c3
>>++ d7-d8
>>00:00 355 (0) 2 -2.48 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8
>>00:00 669 (0) 3 -5.59 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e4 Qf6xf5 Kb1xb2
>>++ f5-e3
>>00:01 2078 (299) 3 -2.84 Nf5-e3 Qf6-d4 Ne3-g2
>>00:01 4177 (299) 4 -2.86 Nf5-e3 Qf6-d4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8
>>00:02 7507 (651) 5 -3.27 Nf5-e3 Qf6-d4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e6 Qd4xd3 Kb1xb2
>>00:05 16959 (2422) 6 -5.39 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Re7-e8 Kd8xd7 Re8-a8 Qf6-d4 Ne3-g4 Qd4x
>>g4 Kb1xb2
>>00:11 41024 (5840) 7 -5.97 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Re7-h7 Qf6-c3 Rh7-h1 Qc3xd3 Kb1xb2 Qd3-
>>d4 Kb2-a3 Qd4xe3
>>00:19 67725 (8880) 8 -7.06 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Ne3-d5 Qf6-f2 Re7-e8 Kd8xd7 Nd5-f6 Qf2x
>>f6 Re8-e1
>>00:35 111977 (12259) 9 -7.46 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Ne3-d5 Qf6-f2 Re7-e8 Kd8xd7 Nd5-f6 Qf
>>2xf6 Re8-e1 Qf6-c3
>>++ d7-d8
>>01:07 227171 (30834) 10 -9.26 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Re7-e8 Kd8xd7 Re8-b8 Qf6-c3 Rb8-b7 K
>>d7-c8 Rb7-c7 Qc3xc7 Ne3-c4 Qc7-g7
>>02:08 483382 (107667) 11 -13.38 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Re7-e8 Kd8xd7 Re8-b8 Qf6-f2 Rb8-b7
>> Kd7-c6 Rb7-b8 Qf2-e1 Kb1xb2 Qe1-d2 Kb2-a3 Qd2-a2 Ka3-b4 b3-b2 Rb8-c8 Kc6-d7 Rc8
>>-d8 Kd7xd8
>>03:12 828835 (160776) 12 -MATE32 Nf5-e3 Kc7-d8 Re7-e4 Qf6-c3 Re4-c4 Qc3xd3 Kb1xb
>>2 Qd3xe3 Rc4-c3 Qe3-d2 Kb2xb3
>>++ e7-e8
>>05:07 1310174 (266867) 12 -MATE33 Re7-e8 Kc7xd7 Re8-e7 Kd7-d8 Re7-b7 Qf6xf5 Rb7x
>>b3 Qf5-e5 Rb3xb2
>>++ e7-e4
>>07:38 2048907 (424197) 12 -MATE39 Re7-e4 Qf6xf5 Kb1xb2 Qf5xd7 Kb2-c3 b3-b2 Re4-c
>>4 Kc7-d8 Rc4-b4 Qd7-d6 Rb4xb2
>>++ f5-d4
>>state
>>State check of all 2 processors:
>>go=true  ttl=4894467 abrtd=663943 q=0 nre=0 rms=-499919 local=88257
>>Locks: queue=0 nprctat=0 blocks=0 hash (t,e,p)=0,0,0 root=0
>>Px  dp_rl dp_q dp_mm abort mmlock mnr DBG  wfm   wfs
>> 0   49    24   48     0    false 23    -1 false true
>> 1   55    32   54     0    false 26    -1 false false
>>Deepest lines seen:
>>e7e8 c7d7 e8e7 d7c8 e7e8 c8c7 f5e7 f6f1 b1b2 f1f2 b2a3 f2c5 a3b2 c5d4 b2a3 d4a1
>>a3b4 a1d4 b4a5 d4e5 a5b4 b3b2 e8c8 c7b7 c8c5 b2b1 b4c4 e5f4 d3d4 f4c1 c4d5 c1g5
>>e7f5 g5f5 d5d6 f5f6 d6d5 b1f5 d5c4 f5e6 d4d5 e6e2 c4b3 f6b2 b3a4 b2a2 a4b4 e2b2
>>
>>e7e4 f6f5 e4c4 c7d8 c4d4 f5f1 b1b2 f1f2 b2c3 b3b2 d4g4 b2b1 g4g8 d8e7 d7d8 e7e6
>>d8e8 e6f5 e8e4 f5f6 e4c6 f6f7 g8g4 f2b2 c3c4 b2b4 c4d5 b4a5 c6c5 a5a8 c5c6 a8a2
>>g4c4 b1d3 d5c5 a2a5 c6b5 a5c7 c5b4 c7e7 c4c5 d3b1 b4c3 b1c1 c3b4 c1b2 b4a4 b2d4
>>c5c4 d4a7 b5a5 a7d7 a5b5 d7d1
>>Current Line:
>>f5d4 f6g5 d7d8 c7d8 d4c6 d8c8 c6a7 c8b8 b1b2 g5g2 b2c3 g2c2 c3d4 c2f2 d4d5 f2f5
>>d5c6 f5f3 c6d7 f3d5 d7e8 d5h5 e7f7
>>f5d4 f6g5 d7d8 c7d8 d4c6 d8c8 c6a7 c8b8 b1b2 g5d2 b2a3 d2c1 a3a4 b3b2 e7e8 b8c7
>>e8e7 c7d8 a7b5 b2b1 e7c7 c1d1 c7c2 d1c2 a4a3 c2d3
>>
>>18:15 5002130 (677589) 12 -13.65 Nf5-d4 Qf6xd4 d7-d8Q Kc7xd8 Re7-e8 Kd8-c7 Re8-c
>>8 Kc7-b6 Rc8-b8 Kb6-a7 Rb8-a8 Ka7-b7 Ra8-b8 Kb7-a7
>>state
>>State check of all 2 processors:
>>go=true  ttl=5038672 abrtd=683652 q=0 nre=0 rms=-13732 local=47830
>>Locks: queue=0 nprctat=0 blocks=0 hash (t,e,p)=0,0,0 root=0
>>Px  dp_rl dp_q dp_mm abort mmlock mnr DBG  wfm   wfs
>> 0   49    24   48     0    false 16    -1 false true
>> 1   55    32   54     0    false 30    -1 false false
>>Deepest lines seen:
>>e7e8 c7d7 e8e7 d7c8 e7e8 c8c7 f5e7 f6f1 b1b2 f1f2 b2a3 f2c5 a3b2 c5d4 b2a3 d4a1
>>a3b4 a1d4 b4a5 d4e5 a5b4 b3b2 e8c8 c7b7 c8c5 b2b1 b4c4 e5f4 d3d4 f4c1 c4d5 c1g5
>>e7f5 g5f5 d5d6 f5f6 d6d5 b1f5 d5c4 f5e6 d4d5 e6e2 c4b3 f6b2 b3a4 b2a2 a4b4 e2b2
>>
>>e7e4 f6f5 e4c4 c7d8 c4d4 f5f1 b1b2 f1f2 b2c3 b3b2 d4g4 b2b1 g4g8 d8e7 d7d8 e7e6
>>d8e8 e6f5 e8e4 f5f6 e4c6 f6f7 g8g4 f2b2 c3c4 b2b4 c4d5 b4a5 c6c5 a5a8 c5c6 a8a2
>>g4c4 b1d3 d5c5 a2a5 c6b5 a5c7 c5b4 c7e7 c4c5 d3b1 b4c3 b1c1 c3b4 c1b2 b4a4 b2d4
>>c5c4 d4a7 b5a5 a7d7 a5b5 d7d1
>>Current Line:
>>f5d4 f6a6 b1b2 a6a2 b2c3 a2a1 c3c4 a1c1 c4b5 b3b2 d7d8 c7d8 d4b3 b2b1 e7e8 d8e8
>>
>>f5d4 f6f1 b1b2 f1d3 d7d8 c7d8 d4c6 d8c8 e7e8 c8c7 c6d8 d3d2 b2a3 b3b2 e8e7 c7d6
>>e7e6 d6c5 e6c6 c5d4 c6c7 b2b1 d8c6 d4c5 c6a7 c5b6 c7c6 b6a7
>>
>>quit
>>Waiting for other processes to end
>>  Proces 1 quitted
>
>
>
>Here is my analysis.  First _with_ EGTBs turned on:
>
>               12    34.62  -7.63   1. Re4 Qxf5 2. d8=Q+ Kxd8 3. Rd4+ Ke7
>                                    4. Re4+ Kf6 5. Kxb2 Qf2+ 6. Ka3 Qa2+
>                                    7. Kb4 b2 8. Re1 b1=Q+ 9. Rxb1 Qxb1+
>                                    10. Kc3 Qc1+ 11. Kb4 Ke5
>               12    47.01     ++   1. Nd4!!
>               12    53.57  -4.81   1. Nd4 Qxd4 2. d8=Q+ Kxd8 3. Re8+ Kc7
>                                    4. Rc8+ Kb6 5. Rb8+ Ka5 6. Ra8+ Kb5
>                                    7. Rb8+ Ka6 8. Rxb3 <HT>
>         (2)   12->  54.31  -4.81   1. Nd4 Qxd4 2. d8=Q+ Kxd8 3. Re8+ Kc7
>                                    4. Rc8+ Kb6 5. Rb8+ Ka5 6. Ra8+ Kb5
>                                    7. Rb8+ Ka6 8. Rxb3 <HT>
>               13    58.01     ++   1. Nd4!!
>               13     1:05  -2.80   1. Nd4 Qxd4 2. d8=Q+ Kxd8 3. Re8+ Kc7
>                                    4. Rc8+ Kb6 5. Rb8+ Kc5 6. Rc8+ Kb4
>                                    7. Rc4+ Qxc4 8. dxc4 Kxc4 9. Kxb2 Kb4
>                                    10. Kc1
>               13->   1:09  -2.80   1. Nd4 Qxd4 2. d8=Q+ Kxd8 3. Re8+ Kc7
>                                    4. Rc8+ Kb6 5. Rb8+ Kc5 6. Rc8+ Kb4
>                                    7. Rc4+ Qxc4 8. dxc4 Kxc4 9. Kxb2 Kb4
>                                    10. Kc1
>
>
>And then without:
>
>               12    14.47  -4.60   1. Re4 Qa6 2. Kxb2 Qa2+ 3. Kc3 Qc2+
>                                    4. Kd4 b2 5. Re8 Kxd7 6. Rb8 Kc7 7.
>                                    Rb4 b1=Q 8. Rxb1 Qxb1
>               12->  15.98  -4.60   1. Re4 Qa6 2. Kxb2 Qa2+ 3. Kc3 Qc2+
>                                    4. Kd4 b2 5. Re8 Kxd7 6. Rb8 Kc7 7.
>                                    Rb4 b1=Q 8. Rxb1 Qxb1
>               13    20.42  -4.60   1. Re4 Qa6 2. Kxb2 Qa2+ 3. Kc3 Qc2+
>                                    4. Kd4 b2 5. Re8 Kxd7 6. Rb8 Kc7 7.
>                                    Rb4 b1=Q 8. Rxb1 Qxb1
>               13->  22.68  -4.60   1. Re4 Qa6 2. Kxb2 Qa2+ 3. Kc3 Qc2+
>                                    4. Kd4 b2 5. Re8 Kxd7 6. Rb8 Kc7 7.
>                                    Rb4 b1=Q 8. Rxb1 Qxb1
>               14    51.95  -4.91   1. Re4 Qa6 2. Kxb2 Qa2+ 3. Kc3 Qc2+
>                                    4. Kb4 Qd2+ 5. Ka3 Qa2+ 6. Kb4 b2 7.
>                                    d8=Q+ Kxd8 8. Re1 b1=Q+ 9. Rxb1 Qxb1+
>                                    10. Kc4 Qa2+ 11. Kd4 Qe6 12. Ne3 Kc7
>               14     1:52     ++   1. Nd4!!
>               14     4:16  -3.33   1. Nd4 Qxd4 2. d8=Q+ Kxd8 3. Re8+ Kc7
>                                    4. Rc8+ Kb6 5. Rb8+ Ka5 6. Ra8+ Kb5
>                                    7. Rb8+ Kc5 8. Rxb3 Qf2 9. Rxb2 Qe3
>                                    10. Kc2 Qd4
>               14->   4:16  -3.33   1. Nd4 Qxd4 2. d8=Q+ Kxd8 3. Re8+ Kc7
>                                    4. Rc8+ Kb6 5. Rb8+ Ka5 6. Ra8+ Kb5
>                                    7. Rb8+ Kc5 8. Rxb3 Qf2 9. Rxb2 Qe3
>                                    10. Kc2 Qd4
>
>So for me, egtbs make this _way_ faster, not slower.  Mainly because it can
>see how bad all the alternatives to Nd4 are, quicker...



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