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Subject: Re: The diagrams are to demonstrate it to thorsten

Author: Laurence Chen

Date: 05:10:49 12/05/00

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On December 05, 2000 at 08:04:38, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 05, 2000 at 04:29:46, Terry Ripple wrote:
>
>>On December 05, 2000 at 00:40:00, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On December 04, 2000 at 22:10:36, Laurence Chen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 17:48:10, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>These positions are from games of shredder5 that Chris Taylor posted.
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]2rqrb2/3n1ppk/b2p3p/1ppPpN2/p3P1P1/P1P2QR1/1PB2PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>In this position Shredder5 played f6 and evaluated the position as 0.00
>>>>>
>>>>>It is not the only case of 0.00 evaluations of lost positions of shredder.
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]2r2bk1/B6p/1p4p1/3Pp1q1/Q1n1P3/8/P3N1PP/R5K1 w - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>Here Shredder5 also played Qd7 and evaluated the position as 0.00
>>>>>23.Qd7 0.00/11 Bc5+ 24.Kh1 0.00/12
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>[D]2rrn1k1/pp1b1pp1/1n1q4/3p1PPN/3P3R/1PNB4/P1Q2K2/6R1 b - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>Here shredder5 evaluated the position as 0.06 pawn against itself and played
>>>>>27...Qc6.
>>>>>
>>>>>The point of this post is not to attack Shredder that did very good result and
>>>>>won the matches against the tigers but only to show that all programs and not
>>>>>only Fritz have positions in the middle game that they are wrong when they
>>>>>evaluate the positions as a draw.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>Uri just because a chess engine gives an evaluation of 0.00 does not necessary
>>>>mean that it is a drawn position.
>>>
>>>I know.
>>>The point is that Thorsten attacked Fritz because Fritz showed 0.00 in middle
>>>game positions that were certainly not a draw.
>>>My examples were to demonstrate thorsten that this behaviour is also of programs
>>>like Shredder5 and not only of Fritz and there is no justification to call fritz
>>>stupid only because of the fact that there are positions that it does not
>>>understand like every program.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>--------------
>>An analysis of 0.00 in the middle game just means that both sides have equal
>>chances to win from that position at that very moment!
>>
>>Terry
>
>The point is that the sides have not equal chances and that the evaluation of
>the program is wrong.
>
>Thoraten claimed that Fritz6 has this behaviour when other programs like
>Shredder do not behave like it.
>
>I give examples to prove that that it is not the case.
>
>Uri
I find a waste of time to try to explain to Thorsten this because it's obvious
that he does not like Fritz and he has prejudice against Fritz.  I agree with
you that all chess engines will show this kind of behavior, no chess engine is
perfect in its analysis, some positions it will mis-evaluate the position,
however, it's better for a chess engine to be right most of the time then try to
be right all the time, no human chess player is right 100% of the time either
when evaluating complex middlegame and opening positions.
Regards,
Laurence



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