Author: Terry Ripple
Date: 11:48:02 12/05/00
Go up one level in this thread
On December 05, 2000 at 08:04:38, Uri Blass wrote: >On December 05, 2000 at 04:29:46, Terry Ripple wrote: > >>On December 05, 2000 at 00:40:00, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On December 04, 2000 at 22:10:36, Laurence Chen wrote: >>> >>>>On December 04, 2000 at 17:48:10, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>These positions are from games of shredder5 that Chris Taylor posted. >>>>> >>>>>[D]2rqrb2/3n1ppk/b2p3p/1ppPpN2/p3P1P1/P1P2QR1/1PB2PP1/R1B3K1 b - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>In this position Shredder5 played f6 and evaluated the position as 0.00 >>>>> >>>>>It is not the only case of 0.00 evaluations of lost positions of shredder. >>>>> >>>>>[D]2r2bk1/B6p/1p4p1/3Pp1q1/Q1n1P3/8/P3N1PP/R5K1 w - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>Here Shredder5 also played Qd7 and evaluated the position as 0.00 >>>>>23.Qd7 0.00/11 Bc5+ 24.Kh1 0.00/12 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>[D]2rrn1k1/pp1b1pp1/1n1q4/3p1PPN/3P3R/1PNB4/P1Q2K2/6R1 b - - 0 1 >>>>> >>>>>Here shredder5 evaluated the position as 0.06 pawn against itself and played >>>>>27...Qc6. >>>>> >>>>>The point of this post is not to attack Shredder that did very good result and >>>>>won the matches against the tigers but only to show that all programs and not >>>>>only Fritz have positions in the middle game that they are wrong when they >>>>>evaluate the positions as a draw. >>>>> >>>>>Uri >>>>Uri just because a chess engine gives an evaluation of 0.00 does not necessary >>>>mean that it is a drawn position. >>> >>>I know. >>>The point is that Thorsten attacked Fritz because Fritz showed 0.00 in middle >>>game positions that were certainly not a draw. >>>My examples were to demonstrate thorsten that this behaviour is also of programs >>>like Shredder5 and not only of Fritz and there is no justification to call fritz >>>stupid only because of the fact that there are positions that it does not >>>understand like every program. >>> >>>Uri >>-------------- >>An analysis of 0.00 in the middle game just means that both sides have equal >>chances to win from that position at that very moment! >> >>Terry > >The point is that the sides have not equal chances and that the evaluation of >the program is wrong. > >Thoraten claimed that Fritz6 has this behaviour when other programs like >Shredder do not behave like it. > >I give examples to prove that that it is not the case. > >Uri ------------ I understand Uri, What i meant to say was the "program" believes that it is equal at that point in time, but as a strong human player he could evaluate that very position as not equal at all. During analysis many human players disagree on certain positions in various points of a game, but for the program to evaluate the position as equall(0.00) when it is not can be bad! Regards,Terry
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