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Subject: Re: Kamikaze Shredder ???

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 21:50:33 12/05/00

Go up one level in this thread


On December 03, 2000 at 22:39:12, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On December 03, 2000 at 13:03:59, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>
>>On December 03, 2000 at 12:14:56, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On December 03, 2000 at 06:22:37, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 02, 2000 at 21:10:25, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 02, 2000 at 14:11:54, Stefan Meyer-Kahlen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 02, 2000 at 12:20:41, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>>
>
>(snip)
>
>>>>>>>I don't think you can compare Chess Tiger 13.0 + Gambit Tiger 1.0 with Shredder
>>>>>>>5 + Kamikaze Shredder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gambit Tiger 1.0 is a genuine and honest attempt to improve both the engine and
>>>>>>>the playing strength, while Kamikaze Shredder is obviously a commercial attempt
>>>>>>>to jump on the bandwagon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Stefan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I wonder whose idea it is. Is it yours, or Weiner's?
>>>>
>>>>It was my idea.
>>>>
>>>>>BTW when I was looking for a name for what is now "Gambit Tiger", the name
>>>>>"Kamikaze" came to my mind. I rejected it because Gambit Tiger is NOT a
>>>>>kamikaze. It can play quietly when needed.
>>>>
>>>>You might be surprised, but there is also a Gambit Shredder on the Shredder5 CD,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not surprised. I already knew you have copied the name "Gambit".
>>
>>
>>There was a "Kasparov Gambit" a couple of years ago :-)
>
>
>
>
>Kasparov Gambit is an old DOS program from 1993. It was not playing gambits BTW.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>as well as a Shredder Bean Counter, a Shredder Brute Force, a Solid Shredder.
>>>>All have different playing styles but have a similiar strength. You can use all
>>>>simultaneously for analysis to get different view for a certain positions or use
>>>>them together in the triple brain.
>>>>
>>>>What's your problem?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm a little bit disappointed.
>>
>>
>>You shouldn't be! Your Gambit is pretty good and successful.
>
>
>
>
>Probably the reason why the name "Gambit" is becoming more and more popular
>nowadays? ;)
>
>
>
>
>
>>>After winning the W(M)CCC several times, I thought you would position yourself
>>>as a leader and defend your own ideas, your own flag, your own name.
>>
>>
>>Yes, the name of my program is Shredder.
>>
>>
>>>Jumping in the bandwagon and sticking the name "Gambit" on one of your engines,
>>>after Gambit Tiger won both the French and Dutch championship is not what I was
>>>expecting from a leader.
>>>
>>>By doing so you position yourself as a follower.
>>
>>
>>Please don't interpret do much into this story.
>
>
>
>
>It's just that I was telling to myself: "well... Stefan is in computer chess
>since... how many years? Five? Six? Seven? What names has he been using for his
>programs? Only one, as far as I know: Shredder. What's the probability that he
>decides like that, out of the blue, to name one of his engines 'Gambit'???".
>
>And one thought leads to another, and you know, it's hard to find another
>explanation than "after the way users have welcomed Gambit Tiger, he has decided
>to be part of it and to stick the name Gambit to his program's name".
>
>No big deal. Maybe it's a kind of... tribute to Gambit Tiger??? ;)
>



Isn't this the latest fad?  Can you say "deep junior", "deep fritz"?  Care
to guess where "deep" was first used?  :)  Ie what could be more confusing
than "deep junior" after there is already a very famous program that went
by "deep blue junior"???

Seems to me that borrowing from a "famous name" is quite acceptable,
wouldn't you think?




>
>
>
>
>>>I know this is common commercial practice to play on the name confusion in order
>>>to fool the customer. "Gambit Tiger" and "Gambit Shredder" sound so close that
>>>it is indeed possible that some people buy your product thinking they are buying
>>>mine. How many of them? 1%? 2%? Is it worth selling your soul?
>>
>>
>>Come on Christophe. Do you really think that anybody will nix up our programs?
>>
>>There is no advertisement for a Gambit Shredder anywhere. After you have bought
>>Shredder you can load an engine called Gambit Shredder. I chose the name because
>>Gambit Shredder is more willing to sacrifice material than Shredder5, so he is
>>more willing to play gambits. I found that's this is the perfect name for it.
>>Kamikaze will do the same but sometimes too much, that's why I choose Kamikaze
>>as a name. The same story for the other engines Solid Shredder, Shredder Bean
>>Counter etc.
>>
>>My thing is just called Shredder5, there is no Gambit anywhere.
>
>
>
>
>OK, OK, you don't need to justify yourself like that. I'm not going to bring a
>lawsuit against you...
>
>I just wanted to tell you frankly what I think about this issue.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>But in this case you could simply have produced an engine named "Deep Flu" or
>>>something similar, and would probably attract more people. At least there are
>>>several engines that are prefixed with "Deep" nowadays, so it sounds like
>>>somebody else already jumped in this bandwagon.
>>>
>>>
>>>What would you say if my colleague Ed produced an engine named "Shroeder" and
>>>played on the confusion with the name of the engine that has won the last WMCCC?
>>
>>
>>Do you believe that anybody would buy Rebel because of this? I don't.
>
>
>
>Maybe because you are not familiar with these nasty commercial practices?
>
>Playing on the confusion of names is a common practice, which has unfortunately
>some efficiency, and that's why companies are so keen in defending their names
>ot trademarks. They bring lawsuits as soon as they feel a competitor is trying
>to eat the slighest percent from their market with names confusion.
>
>Try to register the name Coca Coia, or Nicrosoft for example. Or a chess program
>called Flitz? Or try to sell products with these names without registering
>them...
>
>
>
>
>    Christophe



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