Author: William Penn
Date: 19:37:45 12/06/00
Go up one level in this thread
On December 06, 2000 at 14:48:26, John Merlino wrote: >On December 06, 2000 at 00:53:25, William Penn wrote: > >>On December 05, 2000 at 16:35:12, John Merlino wrote: >> >>>On December 05, 2000 at 14:30:41, William Penn wrote: >>> >>>>On December 05, 2000 at 13:55:23, James T. Walker wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 05, 2000 at 13:01:27, William Penn wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On December 05, 2000 at 10:37:10, James T. Walker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 23:40:17, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 23:08:18, William Penn wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 17:20:28, James T. Walker wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 13:50:50, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 02:39:32, William Penn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>[snip] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>What is a "PV"? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>PV stands for Principal Variation (I hope that's right). It is what the engine >>>>>>>>believes is the best line of play. (please somebody correct me if that is a >>>>>>>>hopelessly naive explanation). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>jm >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That's correct John. And the PV is constantly changing. So if you are looking >>>>>>>at the visual thinking board and the PV changes the board changes to show the >>>>>>>new PV. If you extend the "thinking lines" box vertically you may see many PVs. >>>>>>> The latest is of course the one at the bottom and that is what the visual >>>>>>>thinking board will show as the current position at the end of that PV. >>>>>>>Jim >>>>>> >>>>>>Yes, that's also the way it worked with CM6000. But it does not work that way >>>>>>with CM8000, at least not with my typical CM8000 installation running W98se. >>>>>>The position shown in the Visual Thinking window does not correspond to any of >>>>>>the lines (lists of moves) in the Thinking Lines window. It changes frequently, >>>>>>and it is apparently displaying various intermediate positions of the current >>>>>>search in progress -- at one ply greater than the last line displayed in the >>>>>>Thinking Lines window. But that isn't clear, because I don't "recognize" the >>>>>>positions, so don't actually know what they represent. >>>>>>WP >>>>> >>>>>Hello William, >>>>>Are you sure you have the "Thinking Lines" extended to the right side far enough >>>>>to see the entire variation? I'm sitting here right now looking at my other >>>>>computer in the starting position and here is the PV: >>>>>e4 e5 Nf3 Nf6 d4 Nxe4 Nxe5 d5 Nd2 Nd7 Bb5 c6 >>>>>The position shown on the visual thinking board is exactly what you get at the >>>>>end of the variation. It is at depth 12 and the score is 0.21 at 13,336,141 >>>>>positions. This took 3:57 on my Athlon 900 Mhz. This was with Chessmaster >>>>>playing the black pieces and just sitting there waiting for me to move. As far >>>>>as I can see it's working perfectly. I'm using windows 98 with a downloaded >>>>>update from the Microsoft site. >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Jim >>>> >>>>Hi Jim, >>>>Yes, my Thinking Lines window is fully expanded and shows the complete line of >>>>moves at the right. The Visual Thinking window obviously doesn't work right for >>>>me with my typical CM8000 installation, and I have no idea why. I'm familiar >>>>with it from CM6000, so I know how it's supposed to work. Presumably it is >>>>supposed to work the same in CM8000 as in CM6000. >>>> >>>>I'm running an OEM version of W98se, and Internet Explorer 5.5 (which includes >>>>some windows updates too) with all of the latest updates available online from >>>>Microsoft. If it were Windows 2000 or Windows ME, that might explain it because >>>>apparently they aren't supported, but supposedly CM8000 supports W98se. >>>>WP >>> >>>What boxes do you have checked in the "Thinking Lines" window? What >>>personalities, if any, are in the current game? >>> >>>jm >> >>Mostly I use my CM8666 Deep personality as previously described, versus a human. >>I check the white or black box in the Thinking Lines window, whichever the >>personality is using. I never check the Chessmaster box. >>WP > >Then that's where you're going wrong. The Visual Thinking dialog is attached to >the Chessmaster personality ONLY (via what is called the "Mentor" engine)! It >only matches what would be in the output of the Thinking Lines window if you >checked the Chessmaster box. > >Therefore, when you open the Visual Thinking dialog (or check the Chessmaster >box in the Thinking Lines window), you start ANOTHER engine that loads the >Chessmaster personality and starts evaluating the current position. The only >time this additional engine is not started is if Chessmaster is one of the >personalities in the game. > >jm JM, I guess that would explain it, although I haven't had a chance to test it yet. If that's the case, then the CM8000 Visual Thinking window does not work in any useful way for me, because I almost always use a defined personality. (In contrast, the CM6000 Visual Thinking window works fine with defined personalities.) Alas, that's another significant negative point against CM8000, which has been accumulating a lot of them!? I had good hopes for CM8000, but am now tending to turn negative about it. WP
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