Author: William Penn
Date: 21:24:05 12/07/00
Go up one level in this thread
On December 07, 2000 at 15:45:28, John Merlino wrote: >On December 06, 2000 at 22:37:45, William Penn wrote: > >>On December 06, 2000 at 14:48:26, John Merlino wrote: >> >>>On December 06, 2000 at 00:53:25, William Penn wrote: >>> >>>>On December 05, 2000 at 16:35:12, John Merlino wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 05, 2000 at 14:30:41, William Penn wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On December 05, 2000 at 13:55:23, James T. Walker wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On December 05, 2000 at 13:01:27, William Penn wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On December 05, 2000 at 10:37:10, James T. Walker wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 23:40:17, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 23:08:18, William Penn wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 17:20:28, James T. Walker wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 13:50:50, John Merlino wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>On December 04, 2000 at 02:39:32, William Penn wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>[snip] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>What is a "PV"? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>PV stands for Principal Variation (I hope that's right). It is what the engine >>>>>>>>>>believes is the best line of play. (please somebody correct me if that is a >>>>>>>>>>hopelessly naive explanation). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>jm >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>That's correct John. And the PV is constantly changing. So if you are looking >>>>>>>>>at the visual thinking board and the PV changes the board changes to show the >>>>>>>>>new PV. If you extend the "thinking lines" box vertically you may see many PVs. >>>>>>>>> The latest is of course the one at the bottom and that is what the visual >>>>>>>>>thinking board will show as the current position at the end of that PV. >>>>>>>>>Jim >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Yes, that's also the way it worked with CM6000. But it does not work that way >>>>>>>>with CM8000, at least not with my typical CM8000 installation running W98se. >>>>>>>>The position shown in the Visual Thinking window does not correspond to any of >>>>>>>>the lines (lists of moves) in the Thinking Lines window. It changes frequently, >>>>>>>>and it is apparently displaying various intermediate positions of the current >>>>>>>>search in progress -- at one ply greater than the last line displayed in the >>>>>>>>Thinking Lines window. But that isn't clear, because I don't "recognize" the >>>>>>>>positions, so don't actually know what they represent. >>>>>>>>WP >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Hello William, >>>>>>>Are you sure you have the "Thinking Lines" extended to the right side far enough >>>>>>>to see the entire variation? I'm sitting here right now looking at my other >>>>>>>computer in the starting position and here is the PV: >>>>>>>e4 e5 Nf3 Nf6 d4 Nxe4 Nxe5 d5 Nd2 Nd7 Bb5 c6 >>>>>>>The position shown on the visual thinking board is exactly what you get at the >>>>>>>end of the variation. It is at depth 12 and the score is 0.21 at 13,336,141 >>>>>>>positions. This took 3:57 on my Athlon 900 Mhz. This was with Chessmaster >>>>>>>playing the black pieces and just sitting there waiting for me to move. As far >>>>>>>as I can see it's working perfectly. I'm using windows 98 with a downloaded >>>>>>>update from the Microsoft site. >>>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>>Jim >>>>>> >>>>>>Hi Jim, >>>>>>Yes, my Thinking Lines window is fully expanded and shows the complete line of >>>>>>moves at the right. The Visual Thinking window obviously doesn't work right for >>>>>>me with my typical CM8000 installation, and I have no idea why. I'm familiar >>>>>>with it from CM6000, so I know how it's supposed to work. Presumably it is >>>>>>supposed to work the same in CM8000 as in CM6000. >>>>>> >>>>>>I'm running an OEM version of W98se, and Internet Explorer 5.5 (which includes >>>>>>some windows updates too) with all of the latest updates available online from >>>>>>Microsoft. If it were Windows 2000 or Windows ME, that might explain it because >>>>>>apparently they aren't supported, but supposedly CM8000 supports W98se. >>>>>>WP >>>>> >>>>>What boxes do you have checked in the "Thinking Lines" window? What >>>>>personalities, if any, are in the current game? >>>>> >>>>>jm >>>> >>>>Mostly I use my CM8666 Deep personality as previously described, versus a human. >>>>I check the white or black box in the Thinking Lines window, whichever the >>>>personality is using. I never check the Chessmaster box. >>>>WP >>> >>>Then that's where you're going wrong. The Visual Thinking dialog is attached to >>>the Chessmaster personality ONLY (via what is called the "Mentor" engine)! It >>>only matches what would be in the output of the Thinking Lines window if you >>>checked the Chessmaster box. >>> >>>Therefore, when you open the Visual Thinking dialog (or check the Chessmaster >>>box in the Thinking Lines window), you start ANOTHER engine that loads the >>>Chessmaster personality and starts evaluating the current position. The only >>>time this additional engine is not started is if Chessmaster is one of the >>>personalities in the game. >>> >>>jm >> >>JM, >>I guess that would explain it, although I haven't had a chance to test it yet. >>If that's the case, then the CM8000 Visual Thinking window does not work in any >>useful way for me, because I almost always use a defined personality. (In >>contrast, the CM6000 Visual Thinking window works fine with defined >>personalities.) Alas, that's another significant negative point against CM8000, >>which has been accumulating a lot of them!? I had good hopes for CM8000, but am >>now tending to turn negative about it. >>WP > >I have good news for you! The development team is going to add three buttons to >the Visual Thinking window (similar to the three checkboxes in the Thinking >Lines window), which allow you to choose which of the three possible engines' >data you want to view. Obviously, you can only view one at a time, so the >controls would be radio buttons rather than checkboxes. > >Would that do the trick? > >jm Yes, that would be good! WP
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.