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Subject: Re: About Mogen Larsen's board postion...

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 14:07:10 12/08/00

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On December 08, 2000 at 16:52:46, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 08, 2000 at 15:25:06, Torstein Hall wrote:
>
>>On December 08, 2000 at 14:47:37, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>[D]2r3k1/5p2/1p2pp1p/pPq5/Pn6/1B6/1P2QPPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 25
>>>
>>>It seems some programs get the right answer immediately (e.g. Phalanx) and
>>>others simply never find it.
>>>
>>>My question is, "Why?"
>>>
>>>I tried programs that don't do NULL move, and that did not seem to help.  So
>>>what is preventing programs from finding the right choice?
>>
>>...and Bxe6 is the right move I guess!?
>>
>>Found by Gambit Tiger in a split second
>>
>>Torstein
>
>
>You can find this one of two ways.  You give up a piece for potentially three
>pawns + no king safety for black.  If this were all there is, it would be a
>mistake as white is a piece down.  But there is more.  Going deep enough, black
>has to give the piece back, and white simply ends up winning a pawn, period.
>
>It is not hard to make any program like this.  Crafty hates the idea of giving
>a piece for three pawns because 90% of the time that loses.

I agree that a piece is better than 3 pawns in most of the cases but
I think that it is an exagaration to say that in 90% of the cases the knight is
winning.
There are many cases when knight for 3 pawns is a draw.

  It has to see the
>"meat" before it will "bite".  Which takes 14 plies and 3-4 minutes on my xeon.
>If a program has big scores for king safety, it will probably bite on this
>instantly.  If not, it will have search deep enough to see that black has to
>sac the knight to avoid getting mated, leaving white a pawn up in what might
>still be a drawn ending (both sides have pawns, plus rook and queen each.

The main question is if white can win after Bxe6 fxe6 Qxe6+ Kh8

White can take 4 pawns for the piece but I do not see a forced win for white and
I suspect that it is a draw.

Black does not have to sac the knight in this line but only to sac a pawn.

Uri



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