Author: Uri Blass
Date: 14:32:24 12/08/00
Go up one level in this thread
On December 08, 2000 at 17:07:10, Uri Blass wrote: >On December 08, 2000 at 16:52:46, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On December 08, 2000 at 15:25:06, Torstein Hall wrote: >> >>>On December 08, 2000 at 14:47:37, Dann Corbit wrote: >>> >>>>[D]2r3k1/5p2/1p2pp1p/pPq5/Pn6/1B6/1P2QPPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 25 >>>> >>>>It seems some programs get the right answer immediately (e.g. Phalanx) and >>>>others simply never find it. >>>> >>>>My question is, "Why?" >>>> >>>>I tried programs that don't do NULL move, and that did not seem to help. So >>>>what is preventing programs from finding the right choice? >>> >>>...and Bxe6 is the right move I guess!? >>> >>>Found by Gambit Tiger in a split second >>> >>>Torstein >> >> >>You can find this one of two ways. You give up a piece for potentially three >>pawns + no king safety for black. If this were all there is, it would be a >>mistake as white is a piece down. But there is more. Going deep enough, black >>has to give the piece back, and white simply ends up winning a pawn, period. >> >>It is not hard to make any program like this. Crafty hates the idea of giving >>a piece for three pawns because 90% of the time that loses. > >I agree that a piece is better than 3 pawns in most of the cases but >I think that it is an exagaration to say that in 90% of the cases the knight is >winning. >There are many cases when knight for 3 pawns is a draw. > > It has to see the >>"meat" before it will "bite". Which takes 14 plies and 3-4 minutes on my xeon. >>If a program has big scores for king safety, it will probably bite on this >>instantly. If not, it will have search deep enough to see that black has to >>sac the knight to avoid getting mated, leaving white a pawn up in what might >>still be a drawn ending (both sides have pawns, plus rook and queen each. > >The main question is if white can win after Bxe6 fxe6 Qxe6+ Kh8 > >White can take 4 pawns for the piece but I do not see a forced win for white and >I suspect that it is a draw. > >Black does not have to sac the knight in this line but only to sac a pawn. > >Uri It seems that white can win more than 4 pawns for the knight after Kh8 and I see computer lines when b6 is also captured. My opinion is now that white has good chances to win. Black has an alternative is to try Re8 instead of fxe6 when black is a pawn down but again white has good chances to win. Uri
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