Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 15:27:08 12/08/00
Go up one level in this thread
On December 08, 2000 at 17:32:24, Uri Blass wrote: >On December 08, 2000 at 17:07:10, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On December 08, 2000 at 16:52:46, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On December 08, 2000 at 15:25:06, Torstein Hall wrote: >>> >>>>On December 08, 2000 at 14:47:37, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>> >>>>>[D]2r3k1/5p2/1p2pp1p/pPq5/Pn6/1B6/1P2QPPP/3R2K1 w - - 0 25 >>>>> >>>>>It seems some programs get the right answer immediately (e.g. Phalanx) and >>>>>others simply never find it. >>>>> >>>>>My question is, "Why?" >>>>> >>>>>I tried programs that don't do NULL move, and that did not seem to help. So >>>>>what is preventing programs from finding the right choice? >>>> >>>>...and Bxe6 is the right move I guess!? >>>> >>>>Found by Gambit Tiger in a split second >>>> >>>>Torstein >>> >>> >>>You can find this one of two ways. You give up a piece for potentially three >>>pawns + no king safety for black. If this were all there is, it would be a >>>mistake as white is a piece down. But there is more. Going deep enough, black >>>has to give the piece back, and white simply ends up winning a pawn, period. >>> >>>It is not hard to make any program like this. Crafty hates the idea of giving >>>a piece for three pawns because 90% of the time that loses. >> >>I agree that a piece is better than 3 pawns in most of the cases but >>I think that it is an exagaration to say that in 90% of the cases the knight is >>winning. >>There are many cases when knight for 3 pawns is a draw. >> >> It has to see the >>>"meat" before it will "bite". Which takes 14 plies and 3-4 minutes on my xeon. >>>If a program has big scores for king safety, it will probably bite on this >>>instantly. If not, it will have search deep enough to see that black has to >>>sac the knight to avoid getting mated, leaving white a pawn up in what might >>>still be a drawn ending (both sides have pawns, plus rook and queen each. >> >>The main question is if white can win after Bxe6 fxe6 Qxe6+ Kh8 >> >>White can take 4 pawns for the piece but I do not see a forced win for white and >>I suspect that it is a draw. >> >>Black does not have to sac the knight in this line but only to sac a pawn. >> >>Uri > >It seems that white can win more than 4 pawns for the knight after Kh8 and I see >computer lines when b6 is also captured. > >My opinion is now that white has good chances to win. >Black has an alternative is to try Re8 instead of fxe6 when black is a pawn down >but again white has good chances to win. > >Uri My analysis never considered Kh8 as reasonable. Which leads to the line where black has to offer the knight back.
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