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Subject: Re: Q: Fail High percentage

Author: Landon Rabern

Date: 12:40:28 12/09/00

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On December 09, 2000 at 00:15:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 08, 2000 at 23:13:13, Landon Rabern wrote:
>
>>On December 08, 2000 at 22:22:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On December 08, 2000 at 20:41:40, Landon Rabern wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 08, 2000 at 16:16:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 08, 2000 at 13:21:21, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 08, 2000 at 13:06:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On December 08, 2000 at 12:56:09, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I looking for a measurement for move generation performance.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Do you think FH/CountNodes, where FH is number of times the first generated move
>>>>>>>>was a Fail High, is a good measurement?
>>>>>>>>Do you have some other?
>>>>>>>>What's your figures?
>>>>>>>>I get some 50% and I have a feeling it's to low.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>//Peter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The critical statistic I measure in crafty is this:  "For any position where
>>>>>>>I 'fail high' (return a score >= beta) what percentage of the time does it
>>>>>>>happen on the _first_ move?"  I generally average 92%.  Anything over 90% is
>>>>>>>reasonable.  Anything less means move ordering needs work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>OK, it seems logical. I have in princple 3 types of FH:
>>>>>>  1) Hash table (without moving)
>>>>>>  2) Null Move
>>>>>>  3) Ordinary moves (including the hash table move)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do you include all these cases?
>>>>>>With only the third case counted I'm well over 90%
>>>>>>
>>>>>>//Peter
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Only 1 and 3.  2 is done at a different place in the search and doesn't
>>>>>really count in "move ordering".
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, the way you wrote it, only 3 counts.  for 1) you are not searching
>>>>>a move, so that can't be counted.  2) doesn't count either...
>>>>
>>>>I am getting about 80% on this, is this real bad?  I am not doing internal
>>>>interative deepening, do you think this will help a lot, or do you think there
>>>>is something else wrong.
>>>>
>>>>I try moves in this order:
>>>>
>>>>hash/pv
>>>>all captures sorted MVV/LVA
>>>>two killers
>>>>3 history scan moves
>>>>the rest
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>Landon W. Rabern
>>>
>>>
>>>Your MVV/LVA ordering is probably the culprit.  Because you are trying moves
>>>like QxP, even though the pawn is defended... and you try those _before_ you
>>>try the move that will ultimately fail high (a killer or history move).
>>>
>>>I would still expect it to be higher than 80%... but that might be about right
>>>with MVV/LVA.  You get some of that back in terms of faster ordering, and you
>>>get some back because the bad captures get cut off quickly by null-move
>>>searches... but it could be better...
>>
>>Ok, I switched to using my SEE to order the moves, but did not do the bad
>>captures last yet(no time yet), just did them all at once, but ordered with SEE.
>> Now I get about 86%-89%.  Do you think I should be able to get over 90% by
>>doing bad captures last?
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Landon W. Rabern
>
>
>Very possibly...

Are you counting beta cutoffs in the q-search as well?



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