Author: William Penn
Date: 05:45:40 12/13/00
Go up one level in this thread
On December 12, 2000 at 16:25:13, John Merlino wrote: >On December 12, 2000 at 00:06:23, William Penn wrote: > >>On December 11, 2000 at 16:06:07, John Merlino wrote: >> >>>On December 11, 2000 at 14:52:28, William Penn wrote: >>> >>>>The signs of scores are confused in CM8000. Previously it was confirmed there >>>>is a problem with omitting the minus sign when the score number is in the range >>>>of -0.01 to -0.99. Now, here is an example of the signs being wrong when the >>>>score number is larger than 1.00. >>>> >>>>BR -- -- BQ BK -- BN BR >>>>-- BP BP BB -- -- -- -- >>>>-- BB -- -- BP BP -- BP >>>>BP WP -- BP WP -- BP -- >>>>WP -- -- WP -- -- -- WN >>>>-- WN WP WB -- -- -- WP >>>>-- -- -- -- -- WP WP -- >>>>WR -- WB WQ WR -- WK -- >>>> >>>>White: a custom personality Black: human Black to move >>>> >>>>if Chessmaster box checked in Thinking Lines window >>>>Time Depth Score Positions Moves >>>>0:07 7 5.25 210887 h5 Ng6 Rh7 exf6 Qxf6 Ne5 Rh6 Qc2 >>>>0:27 8 5.01 716123 h5 Ng6 Rh7 exf6 Qxf6 Ne5 Rh6 Qd2 >>>>1:11 9 5.46 2169809 h5 Ng6 Rh6 Bxg5 fxg5 Qf3 Bxb5 Bxb5+ ... >>>>3:46 10 5.71 7208736 h5 Ng6 Rh7 exf6 Qxf6 Ne5 Rh6 h4 ... >>>>21:56 11 6.15 42116395 h5 Ng6 Rh7 exf6 Qxf6 Ne5 Rh6 Nf3 ... >>>> >>>>if White box checked in Thinking Lines window >>>>Time Depth Score Positions Moves >>>>0:04 7 -5.25 210887 h5 Ng6 Rh7 exf6 Qxf6 Ne5 Rh6 Qc2 >>>>0:13 8 -5.01 716123 h5 Ng6 Rh7 exf6 Qxf6 Ne5 Rh6 Qd2 >>>>0:35 9 -5.46 2169809 h5 Ng6 Rh6 Bxg5 fxg5 Qf3 Bxb5 Bxb5+ ... >>>>1:52 10 -5.71 7208736 h5 Ng6 Rh7 exf6 Qxf6 Ne5 Rh6 h4 ... >>>>10:49 11 -6.15 42116395 h5 Ng6 Rh7 exf6 Qxf6 Ne5 Rh6 Nf3 ... >>>> >>>>Everything is the same in these two charts except the signs of the scores and >>>>the times. That's because the custom personality is identical to Chessmaster, >>>>just with a different name. The first chart takes twice as much time because >>>>another engine was running in the background, unknown to me (inadvertently, i.e. >>>>that's another major problem with CM8000!?). >>>> >>>>Although it would be possible to define a special protocol to make these results >>>>acceptable, that would complicate things unnecessarily, and will cause mass >>>>confusion because it departs from what almost everyone expects. Again, the >>>>standard protocol is that the score is positive when white has an advantage, and >>>>is negative when black has an advantage -- independent of who has the move. It >>>>should also be independent of which box(es) is checked in the Thinking Lines >>>>window! >>>> >>>>Obviously white is winning in this position, so the signs of the scores should >>>>be positive in all cases. >>>>WP >>> >>>I cannot duplicate this. How are you setting up a position with Black to move, >>>and then clicking on the White checkbox and getting output? The White engine >>>should not start thinking (in this instance) until it is its turn to move? Could >>>you give the full move list that arrived at this position? >>> >>>Also, it should be noted that the bug involving negative scores less than -1.00 >>>has been found and fixed. Thanks again for your assitance, >>> >>>jm >> >>The move sequence leading to the above position is: >>1.Nf3 Nc6 2.d4 e6 3.e4 d5 4.e5 Bb4+ 5.c3 Ba5 6.Bd3 Bd7 7.0-0 h6 8.b4 Bb6 9.a4 a5 >>10.b5 Nce7 11.Nbd2 Nf5 12.Nb3 g5 13.h3 f6 14.Re1 Nh4 15.Nxh4 >>You can enter the moves as human vs. human, then change the white player to a >>custom personality via Ctrl-G. I used Chessmaster#0, just a different name for >>Chessmaster, but it's treated as a custom player. Then check the white box and >>the analysis begins. Actually it begins as soon as you change the player to a >>custom personality, but you must check the white box to see it. To initialize >>things, I usually save the game to the hard drive then reload it, which seems to >>kill any other engines that might be running in the background, etc. >> >>Checking the white or black box always shows an active evaluation in progress in >>the Thinking Lines window if one of the players is a custom personality. That's >>as it should be. I like it that way! When fixing this problem, I hope you don't >>kill that kind of versatility!? The only problem (apparently) is that the signs >>of the scores are wrong. >> >>I'm glad to hear that the -0.01 to -0.99 problem was fixed. Just one little baby >>step at a time, as Bill Murray said... :) >>WP > >The problem has been found and fixed. It would only occur with infinite time >controls, because engines are put into analyze mode in that time control, >causing their scores to report differently than if they think they are actually >playing one of the sides in the game. > >Thanks again for the examples and the detailed descriptions, > >jm That's good to know. Thanks for the feedback. It sounds like the patch will do a lot, and my only suggestion would be not to rush it. WP
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