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Subject: Re: chess solved

Author: Michael Neish

Date: 20:07:25 12/13/00

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On December 13, 2000 at 19:26:20, Robin Smith wrote:

>The likelyhood of chess being a win for white, with perfect play from both
>sides, is very low.  This is born out by computer-computer games, where the draw
>percentage increases as search depth/time increases and also by the fact that
>super GM vs. super GM games have a much higher draw rate than games by lower
>rated players.  In both cases as playing strength increases the percentage of
>draws also increases.  Strong evidence that chess is a draw.  Also, in decisive
>games one almost invariably finds that one of the players either made a mistake
>or mistakes, or at the very least took unneccesary risks.  And most strong
>chesspayers believe a perfectly played game should end in a draw.  When Kasparov
>was once asked why he did not win a particular game he replied "Chess is a draw,
>no?".
>So, there will NEVER be any computer opening database, no matter how big, where
>computers (playing white) think the 1st position out of book is always at least
>+2.50 for the computer .... unless the computer has a seriously flawed
>evaluation, in which case it will hardly mean chess is solved.
>

With all due respect, the points you make in your post, if correct (and some I
think are debatable), merely suggest that Chess might be a draw, and do not
prove it.  They do not justify the strong conclusion you make at the end.

The draw rate is reflected in a player's rating.  If two player's ratings are
close, then of course they are going to draw more often than not.  At any rate,
super-GMs might not be seeing anywhere near far enough over the board for the
outcome of a position to be proved beyond a doubt.

It was my understanding that there is no evidence of a decline in the rate of
improvement of a computers' play with increasing ply depth.  I.e., a 7-ply
searcher is expected to have the same rating difference compared to a 6-ply
searcher as a 13 to a 12, etc.  I think this is the established view, although
I've also heard of (but never directly read) an opposing view.  Maybe someone
who knows more about this can confirm or deny it.  I think the reason why the
draw rate increases with increasing search time is that the search time per ply
increases exponentially.  So if you are playing at 40/120, chances are that both
programs will be searching roughly to the same depth, and will not be outdone
tactically.  If you are searching 3 seconds per move, then the probability of
missing tactics that your opponent misses, or vice-versa, increases.

Just my opinion.  I also tend to think Chess is a draw, but piling up anecdotal
evidence doesn't prove it, whatever Kasparov might say.

Cheers,

Mike.




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