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Subject: Re: Tiger too selective ?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 20:00:19 12/22/00

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On December 22, 2000 at 16:12:35, Rob Shultz wrote:

>On December 22, 2000 at 15:52:19, Ernst A. Heinz wrote:
>
>>>On December 22, 2000 at 14:45:03, Ernst A. Heinz wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Did you look at what happens if you play a4?  Your kingside gets totally
>>>>>shredded, starting with Qxf7+...
>>>>
>>>>Yes, true -- but then Black's King is not standing there!
>>>>
>>>>It rather seems quite safe on d8 while White's King gets
>>>>into mighty trouble on d1 after the sequence a4 - Qxf7+ -
>>>>Kd8 - Qxg7:
>>>>
>>>>[d]2rk3r/6Q1/4p3/1pqpP3/p3b1PP/1B6/PPP2R1R/2K5 b - - 0 1
>>>>
>>>>"DarkThought" quickly scores this as substantially positive
>>>>for Black, locking onto Qe3+ as the best move almost instantly.
>>>>
>>>>=Ernst=
>>>
>>>I have no doubt that black might actually be winning here.  But that wasn't
>>>the point.  You said you picked a4 at depth=10.  For that to happen, you have
>>>to ignore king safety and sit in the middle of the board, with a queen at f7,
>>>a rook on the open file, the king rook hanging, the king can't move to connect
>>>the rooks, etc.
>>>
>>>IE at 10 ply it is all judgement, not "truth" as the search probably can't see
>>>the final outcome.
>>
>>"DarkThought" gets a fail-low on 0-0 in iteration #10 with the
>>score dropping from +1.1 in iteration #9 to just +0.39. Then,
>>it locks onto a4 and shows the correct PV for it already in
>>iteration #10 (with the white King being driven to d1 where it
>>is similarly exposed as the black King on d8).
>>
>>So, why should that mean to ignore king safety or all the other
>>evaluation stuff you are talking about above?
>>
>>To me, it simply looks like our search picks up the crucial
>>threats earlier (maybe, by means of more appropriate extensions
>>in this particular case) -- no more, no less.
>>
>>=Ernst=
>
>Chess Tiger 13.0 likes Rc7.  I ran it on a PII 450 with 48MB hashtable.
>
>00:00:00.8	0.44	6	44059	Qe7 c3 b4 c4 Qd7 Qg5 dxc4
>00:00:00.0	0.46	7	91889	Qe7 a3 a4 Ba2 Rc7 c3 Bg6
>00:00:02.1	0.12	8	324422	Qe7 a4 b4 h5 Rc7 h6 gxh6 Rxh6 Rxh6 Qxh6 Kd7
>00:00:04.0	0.24	8	476754	Qc7 a3 a4 Ba2 Qe7 h5 Rh6 Rf1
>00:00:05.0	0.74	8	639803	Rc7 Rh3 Qe7 a4 b4 h5 Qc5 Rh4
>00:00:07.2	0.72	9	806572	Rc7 a3 a4 Ba2 b4 axb4 Qxb4 c3 O-O Kd1
>00:00:11.2	0.74	10	1290158	Rc7 a3 a4 Ba2 b4 axb4 Qxb4 c3 O-O Kd1 Qc5
>00:00:19.1	0.92	11	2291923	Rc7 a3 a4 Ba2 b4 axb4 Qxb4 c3 O-O Kd1 Qc5 Ke2
>00:00:43.2	1.40	12	5323176	Rc7 a3 a4 Ba2 b4 axb4 Qxb4 Qe3 O-O Rf1 Rb8 Qa3 Qd4
>00:01:30.0	1.12	13	11353422	Rc7 a3 a4 Ba2 b4 axb4 Qxb4 c3 Qe7 Qg5 Qxg5+ hxg5
>Rxh2 Rxh2 a3 Rh8+ Kd7
>00:03:54.0	1.26	14	30268218	Rc7 a3 a4 Ba2 b4 axb4 Qxb4 Qe3 O-O c3 a3 Kd1 Qe7 Ke1
>Rfc8 bxa3 Rxc3
>00:14:02.7	1.16	15	117114018	Rc7 a3 a4 Ba2 b4 axb4 Qxb4 Qe3 O-O c3 a3 Kd1 Qe7
>Ke1 Rb8 bxa3 Qxa3
>
>Rob

If you wait enough you will find that tiger changes its mind and find a4 at
depth 15 when the score is clearly better(I think about +2 but I do not
remember).

It can take some hours(It took almost 2 hours on my pIII450).

Uri



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