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Subject: Shredder 5 finds it in 6 minutes

Author: Laurence Chen

Date: 18:03:24 12/24/00

Go up one level in this thread


On December 24, 2000 at 12:02:09, Uri Blass wrote:

>On December 24, 2000 at 10:29:40, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>
>>On December 24, 2000 at 08:02:18, David Rasmussen wrote:
>>
>>>Actually, it has nothing to do with christmas, but here goes:
>>>
>>>8/8/5n1p/p1k1pBpP/1p2P1P1/1P2K3/P7/8 b - - 0 1
>>>
>>...
>>>The line played was 1...Kb5 2. Kd3 a4 3. bxa4+ Kxa4 4. Kc4 Ka3 5. Kc5 Kxa2 6.
>>>Kxb4 Kb2
>>>
>>>My problem is that Chezzz doesn't find this line.
>>
>>Neither does Yace.
>>
>>Now Chezzz is no genius,
>>>especially not in endgame situations, but when I run a search from the resulting
>>>position, it gives black a +0.60 advantage, so it should be able to see this.
>>
>>After the end of the line I get in under a minute a score of over 2.5
>>in favor of black.
>>
>>>Never the less, from the starting position, after searching 15 plies deep, it
>>>still evaluates the position as 0.01 with a boring line of just moving the
>>>pieces around.
>>
>>In the position given, I get a score of 0.25 in favor of black, mainly
>>becuase of the color of pawns and the bishop.
>>
>>>How do other programs do in this position? It doesn't seem very difficult.
>>
>>Perhaps this line cannot be found by a chess engine. Mine wants to move
>>4. Ke3, and shows again a score of about -0.2. If I force Kc4, I get almost
>>immediately a score of about one in fovor of black.
>
>
>I think that the engines are right and I see no plan for black to win after Ke3
>
>Here is a better hard test position from one of my games and I hope a correct
>one:
>
>[D]5k2/3b1p1p/2p3p1/2P1P1P1/3N1K1P/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
>
>This position is from my game against another player.
>
>I played 49.e6 that is probably winning.
>
>I won the game after 49.e6 fxe6 50.Ke5 Ke7 51.Nc2 Kf7 52.Ne3 Bc8 53.Ng4 Kg7
>54.Kd6 and after some more moves black resigned.
>
>I analyzed the game with my chess programs and they suggested 53...Ke7 that is a
>better defence but white can still win material and probably the game.
>
>For example 54.Nf6 Ba6 55.Nxh7 Be2 56.Nf6 Bf3 57.Kf4 Be2 58.Ne4 Bd1 59.Nc3 Bh5
>60.Na2 Be2 61.Nb4 Bb5 62.Nc2 Bc4 63.Nd4 Bd5 64.Ke5 when black is in zunzwang is
>a possible comp-comp line.
>
>I think that white needs a lot of moves to put the king at e5 and the knight at
>d4 but black cannot prevent it.
>
>The question is if chess programs can find 49.e6 that seems to be the best move.
>
>
>Uri
Here's S5 analysis after 2 hours in my PIII 600e with 256 MB Hash Table:
Engine: Gambit Shredder
by Stefan Meyer-Kahlen
position:  bm e6;
 12.01	 0:01 	+0.84 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Ke3 Kf8 3.Kf4 Ke7 4.Ke4 Ke8 5.Ke3 Ke7 (280.441)
183.1
 13.01	 0:02 	+0.84 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Ke3 Kf8 3.Kf4 Ke7 4.Ke4 Ke8 5.Ke3 Ke7 (467.717)
168.4
 14.01	 0:05 	+0.82 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Ke3 Kd8 3.Nb3 Be6 4.Na5 Kc7 5.Ke4 Kd7 6.Kd4 Bc4
(936.422) 164.2
 15.01	 0:13 	+0.82 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Kf3 Kf8 3.Kf4 Ke7 4.Ke4 Kd8 5.Ke3 Kc7 6.Ke4 Bh3
7.Ne2 Bf5+ 8.Kd4 (2.301.160) 174.7
 16.01	 0:22 	+0.74 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Kf3 Kd8 3.Kf4 Kc7 4.Nb3 Be6 5.Nd2 Bd5 6.Ne4
Bxe4 7.Kxe4 Kd8 8.Kd4 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke8 10.Kf4 Kd7 11.Ke4 Ke6 12.Ke3 Kxe5 13.Kd2 f5
14.Kc1 (3.631.322) 160.1
 17.01	 0:39 	+0.74 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Kf3 Kd8 3.Kf4 Kc7 4.Nb3 Be6 5.Nd2 Bd5 6.Ne4
Bxe4 7.Kxe4 Kd8 8.Kd4 Kd7 9.Ke3 Ke8 10.Kd4 Kd7 11.Ke3 (6.155.481) 154.6
 17.03	 0:42 	+0.75++ 	1.Nb3 Bh3 2.Na5 Bg2 3.Nc4 Ke7 4.Ke3 Kd7 5.Nd6 Ke6 6.Kd4
Bd5 7.Ne8 Ba2 (6.739.666) 158.0
 17.03	 0:43 	+0.75 	1.Nb3 Bh3 2.Na5 Bg2 3.Nc4 Ke7 4.Ke3 Kd7 5.Nd6 Ke6 6.Kd4 Bd5
7.Ne8 Ba2 8.Nc7+ Kd7 9.Ne6 (6.845.751) 158.9
 18.01	 1:04 	+0.69 	1.Nb3 Bh3 2.Na5 Bg2 3.Nc4 Ke7 4.Ke3 Kd7 5.Nd6 Ke6 6.Kd4 Bd5
(10.084.600) 155.4
 18.02	 1:21 	+0.70++ 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Kf3 Kd8 3.Kf4 Kc7 (11.134.057) 136.8
 18.02	 1:35 	+0.74 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Kf3 Kd8 3.Kf4 Kc7 4.Nb3 Bh3 5.Ke4 Kd7 6.Kd4 Be6
7.Na5 Bg4 8.Nc4 Be2 9.Nd6 Bb5 10.Nxf7 Ke6 11.Nd6 Kd7 (13.687.983) 143.1
 19.01	 2:35 	+0.74 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Kf3 Kd8 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke4 Kf8 5.Kf4 Ke7 6.Kf3 Kd8
(21.481.784) 137.7
 19.02	 2:43 	+0.75++ 	1.Nb3 Bh3 2.Na5 Bg2 3.Nc4 Ke7 4.Ke3 Kd7 5.Nd6 Ke6 6.Kd4
Bd5 (22.803.993) 139.1
 19.02	 2:45 	+0.75 	1.Nb3 Bh3 2.Na5 Bg2 3.Nc4 Ke7 4.Ke3 Kd7 5.Nd6 Ke6 6.Nb7
(23.153.849) 140.0
 20.01	 3:57 	+0.72 	1.Nb3 Be6 2.Na5 Bd5 3.Nb7 Ke7 4.Nd6 Bg2 5.Ke3 Bd5 6.Kd4 Ke6
7.Ne8 Kf5 8.Nf6 Bg2 9.Ke3 (32.572.872) 136.9
 20.02	 4:25 	+0.73++ 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Kf3 Kd8 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke4 Kf8 5.e6 fxe6 6.Nb5
(35.332.094) 132.9
 20.02	 4:40 	+0.74 	1.Ke4 Ke7 2.Kf3 Kd8 3.Ke3 Ke7 4.Ke4 Kf8 5.e6 fxe6 6.Nb5
(38.117.166) 136.0
 20.11	 5:45 	+0.75++ 	1.e6 fxe6 2.Nf3 Ke7 3.Ke5 Be8 4.Nh2 Kf8 (46.453.949)
134.3
 20.11	 5:55 	+0.90 	1.e6 fxe6 2.Nf3 Ke7 3.Ke5 Be8 4.Nh2 Bd7 5.Ng4 Bc8 6.Nf6 Bb7
7.Nxh7 Ba6 8.Nf6 Be2 9.Ne4 Bf3 (47.861.362) 134.4
 21.01	 6:30 	+0.90 	1.e6 fxe6 2.Nf3 Ke7 3.Ke5 Be8 4.Nh2 Bd7 5.Ng4 Bc8 6.Nf6 Bb7
7.Nxh7 Ba6 8.Nf6 Be2 9.Ke4 Bd1 (50.769.818) 130.0
 22.01	 8:16 	+0.90 	1.e6 fxe6 2.Nf3 Ke7 3.Ke5 Be8 4.Nh2 Bd7 5.Ng4 Bc8 6.Nf6 Bb7
7.Ng4 Ba6 8.Nf6 Kf8 9.Kxe6 h5 (63.985.569) 128.9
 23.01	10:35 	+0.90 	1.e6 fxe6 2.Nf3 Ke7 3.Ke5 Be8 4.Nh2 Bd7 5.Ng4 Bc8 6.Nf6 Bb7
7.Ng4 Ba6 8.Nf6 Kf8 9.Kxe6 h5 (84.641.320) 133.1
 24.01	14:37 	+0.90 	1.e6 fxe6 2.Nf3 Ke7 3.Ke5 Be8 4.Nh2 Bd7 5.Ng4 Bc8 6.Nf6 Bb7
7.Ng4 Ba6 8.Nf6 Bb5 (122.499.975) 139.5
 25.01	31:37 	+0.82 	1.e6 fxe6 2.Nf3 Bc8 3.Ke4 Ke7 4.Ne5 Bb7 5.Kd4 Kf8 6.Ng4 Ke7
7.Ke5 Ba6 8.Nf6 Be2 9.Nxh7 (314.525.748) 165.7
 26.01	91:09 	+0.82 	1.e6 fxe6 2.Nf3 Bc8 3.Ke4 Ke7 4.Ne5 Bb7 5.Kd4 Kf8 6.Ng4 Ke7
7.Ke5 Ba6 8.Nf6 Be2 9.Nxh7 (1.042.315.787) 190.5

Regards,
Laurence



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