Author: Uri Blass
Date: 07:07:18 12/28/00
Go up one level in this thread
On December 28, 2000 at 09:46:43, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On December 28, 2000 at 00:24:40, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On December 27, 2000 at 22:38:23, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On December 27, 2000 at 04:58:02, Ed Schröder wrote: >>> >>>>On December 27, 2000 at 00:28:01, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 25, 2000 at 19:17:51, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On December 25, 2000 at 02:31:32, jonas cohonas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Todays chessplaying progs, are really, really strong!! >>>>>>>And maby Kramnnik is right when he says that progs are >>>>>>>inferior in tactics and positional "understanding" how- >>>>>>>ever it seems that even the super GM's (top 10) are see- >>>>>>>king ways to play for draws and blocked pawnstructures >>>>>>>they are ALL avoiding (maby except from Morozevich) att- >>>>>>>acking, these "inferior" progs because of the simple fact >>>>>>>that when it comes to calculation of: lines, exchanges, >>>>>>>combinations, mate in 69# (lol), tempo's etc........... >>>>>>>the prog's (top 10) are superior. And as the prog's get >>>>>>>more and more knowledge and implementation of selflearning >>>>>>>and arteficial intelligence AI. they WILL be superior to >>>>>>>humans in all aspects of the game, that is just a question >>>>>>>of time, just look at Deep junior and Deep Fritz/Fritz 6a-b's >>>>>>>latest score against GM's. The question is not; if progs >>>>>>>will beat human brains, but when they will reign supreme >>>>>>>it might be in 5 years, my personal feeling is 5 years, but >>>>>>>it might aswell be 50 years (i dont think it will be more >>>>>>>than that though) many people might feel that the fun and >>>>>>>intrique of the game will be taken out of chess, if the >>>>>>>progs get unbeatable, but in that lies the real challenge >>>>>>>for humans, to stretch there abillities and raise the level >>>>>>>of their own game, try to come up with new ways to beat the >>>>>>>progs, and thereby becoming better players, because no matter >>>>>>>how good the progs get, there will always be the excitement >>>>>>>of human v human games and matches. >>>>>>>Personally i enjoy watching progs v humans and vice versa, >>>>>>>I also enjoy a good celluloid battle in contrast to the >>>>>>>sillicon binary shootouts between the top dog's of AI. >>>>>>>By the way Deep blue lost to shredder 4 who played from a >>>>>>>laptop with a pentiumll 450 mhz 128 ram so in conclusion >>>>>>>you can have as many kn/s, if there is no sufficiant knowledge >>>>>>>it is only calculations. Deep blue would probably rank as 9-10 >>>>>>>on any rating list with todays PC progs(my opinion soley) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Deep Blue would be #1. >>>>>> >>>>>>Deep Blue Junior would probably not be above the best PC programs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Christophe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Murray had DB junior online during a couple of the Kasparov/Kramnik games. >>>>>With 20 chess processors, it was hitting over 40M nodes per second. I wouldn't >>>>>want any part of that with today's PC hardware/programs... >>>> >>>>It would be nice to see the thing participate only once. The thing seem >>>>to be alive so what is keeping them? >>>> >>>>Ed >>> >>> >>>IBM is the problem. They have everything to lose, nothing to gain, >>>unfortunately. >> >>I do not see what they can lose if it can get the best rating on ICC today. >>They do not have to play in tournament but if they know that they are clearly >>better than other programs they have nothing to lose because they can prove it >>by getting the best rating on ICC today. > >They had the best-ever win/lose ratio on ICC years ago. There is nothing >more to prove there. But if they lose _one_ game to a commercial chess engine, >that is all that will be heard for the next few years. "This is the program >that beat IBM's mighty deep blue." Something similiar already happened when IBM's program lost 3-0 against Rebel and drew 1.5-1.5 against Tiger. They claimed that it was not the real Deep blue Junior and that it played many games at the same time but after they lost against Rebel I do not think that they have more to lose if they get 99-1 or even 90-10 result on ICC against the best program. I believe that people who do not know about the 3-0 of Rebel against IBM are not going to know about the single loss of the real Deep blue Junior against top programs. Uri
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