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Subject: Re: Nolot #5 revisited

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 11:34:03 01/02/01

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On January 02, 2001 at 14:01:27, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On January 02, 2001 at 06:08:12, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 02, 2001 at 04:20:12, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>On January 01, 2001 at 23:54:02, Pete Galati wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ok, I gave Comet 72 hours to look at this position, no changes for over a day,
>>>>it never reached SD 17.  It was doing approx 60mb hashtables in Windows ME's
>>>>Dos.  Comet seems quite sure that Nf3 is the correct move.  Personally, I would
>>>>have worked on stacking the Queen's Rook over the Queen.
>>>>
>>>>There was 2 games between Spassky and Petrocian (spelling?) in Moscow in 1969
>>>>with the same position.  The one that's 28 moves long is interesting because in
>>>>that one Spassky got to take him apart for a few more moves and then things made
>>>>more sense to me.
>>>>
>>>>Was e5 _really_ the best move?
>>>
>>>e5 is shattering.  I have no problem believing that it is the best move.
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>I agree that e5 is winning but I cannot see +5 advanatge for white even after
>>some analyis with chess programs and the best that I can see is scores that are
>>close to +3.
>
>I ran it for several days on a quad processor, and I think that my program is
>known for finding tactical combinations.

I believe that your program saw the tactics and I guess that it is better than
most programs in the e5 position.

>
>>It will be interesting to get a proving tree to the +5(I mean a tree when
>>programs can see in every leaf of the tree in a few minutes +5 evaluation for
>>white or at least +4).
>
>I don't need to do that, the alpha-beta algorithm should do that for me.

You are right that the alpha beta is enough to prove it but I think that these
proving tree may help to learn which lines to extend.

>
>>The score for the other nolot position is more convincing because black must
>>follow the main line.

<snipped>
>The score for that is perfectly convincing.  If the line it produced was +5, the
>main line must be as bad or worse.  It is possible that the program will fail
>low down to something a little lower than +5, but this is not very common with a
>score like +5.  That's almost always a crush.

I believe that the score is correct.
When I say that the score is not convincing I mean to say that I do not
understand why the score is correct.

I admit that I tried to do it with programs only for a few hours and Ferret used
more time and better hardware but it is known that computers are using most of
their time for analyzing illogical lines.

I also knew the main line of the solution when Ferret did not know it before it
started to search.

This is the reason that I hoped to find a proof for the +5 in relatively a short
time.

Uri



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