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Subject: Re: SSDF Deep Fritz - Junior 6: 0,5 - 2,5 Now: 1 - 6 !!

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 19:42:53 01/03/01

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On January 03, 2001 at 18:02:43, Bertil Eklund wrote:

>On January 03, 2001 at 17:06:58, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>
>>On January 03, 2001 at 10:18:51, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>>>>Then it's even worse for program B. In this case, "B benefits more from faster
>>>>hardware" is a statement created to hide the fact that B sucks somewhere on the
>>>>strength/time_control curve. Generally near the origin (fast time controls).
>>>>
>>>>The "benefits more from faster hardware" is a bullshit. It's an attempt to make
>>>>you believe that the program in question will be the best on the hardware of
>>>>next year. Which never happens.
>>
>>
>>nonsense. there is a normal reason the programs on fast hardware do
>>not beat next year, because in 1 year the others make also much progress.
>>they buy the program that would be strong on fast hardware, and
>>next year the slow program has not much chance.
>>
>>saying chess programs would increase strength linear, is a myth !
>>it's not true.
>>not for fritz (strong in first seconds, weaker the deeper)
>>not for hiarcs (the more time the better) , not for shredder,
>>nor mchess nor cstal (the faster or more time control the better)
>>and and and and.
>>
>>these programs all do not increase strength in linear graphs,
>>your problem is: that you don't feel or measure or find out
>>why and when chess programs play strong.
>>with ssdf you only measure a fracture of what you could measure
>>if you would study main-lines and search-depth and would watch the
>>games all and all live.
>>
>>take e.g. gandalf.
>>this program develops into a monster on 1000 Mhz hardware on 40/120.
>>if you play faster than 3' per move , or on a slower machine,
>>others are stronger.
>>
>>but i cannot guaranty you, that in the time ssdf-tests with 1000 Mhz
>>machines, gandalf432 will be the leader, because 1 or 2 years
>>later, this is 10 or 20 years in computerchess.
>>the relation between developments between cars and computers
>>is nearly 1:5.
>>4 years in computer-time is nearly 20 years in car-devlopment.
>>
>>gandalf is as good as example as hiarcs or cstal is.
>>but when the time comes, you test all programs on THAT hardware,
>>the others have made big progress too.
>>
>>the progress in gandalf/hiarcs/cstal came from intelligence in those
>>programs.
>>it takes time until other programs get this intelligence too.
>>but when the time has come, there is no advantage anymore.
>>
>>>>It has been said many times for various programs, but then it has never been
>>>>proven.
>>
>>>>    Christophe
>>
>>but this sentence is not true.
>>you cannot prove it. because when YOU find out, or the ssdf, thats so late
>>that you have forgotten how strong something was months ago.
>>
>>
>>>Hi!
>>>
>>>In fact it is one case CStal competes relatively good on "todays" computers.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bertil
>>
>>hiarcs, gandalf, old mchess versions.
>
>I see that your answer was mainly to Christophe but in the case of the latest
>Hiarcs7.32 it's probably weaker on longer time-controls. Hiarcs is an excellent
>blitzer but slightly weaker on longer time-controls.
>
>This is probably because of the search it uses, in example when Hiarcs goes one
>ply deeper it often takes 10 times longer than the last ply and therefore cant
>finish the next ply.
>
>Bertil

Not only because of this but also because of the retaining hash tables bug that
is a practical problem only at long time control.

Uri



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