Author: Uri Blass
Date: 07:14:06 01/06/01
Go up one level in this thread
On January 06, 2001 at 10:09:59, David Rasmussen wrote: >On January 06, 2001 at 00:53:10, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On January 05, 2001 at 23:51:21, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On January 05, 2001 at 14:28:21, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On January 05, 2001 at 14:03:57, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 05, 2001 at 07:50:42, Mark Schreiber wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>In the match with v/d Wiel, Rebel is running on P3 866 MHz. Using a faster >>>>>>computer would be an improvemnt. Maybe a P4 1.5 GHz. They could also improve >>>>>>Rebel to run on dual or multi processor like Junior. The Junior that ran on an 8 >>>>>>processor at Dortmund would clobber v/d Wiel. At Dortmund, Junior performed at >>>>>>Fide 2700. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I doubt _any_ program will "clobber" him. Speed isn't the only issue when you >>>>>play a computer-savvy GM. If your program has a hole (and all current programs >>>>>have many of them) then speed isn't going to help a bit if the GM knows what he >>>>>is doing. >>>> >>>>I believe that speed is going to help because the holes of chess programs can be >>>>covered by deeper search in part of the cases. >>>> >>>>There are positions when speed will practically not help but getting this >>>>positions may be prevented if the computer is faster. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>> >>>We've been waiting for this to happen for 30 years. We aren't there yet. I >>>don't think we will be there in another 30 years. The holes _must_ be filled >>>or the programs are going to have problems with anti-computer humans _forever_ >>>no matter how fast they go. DB1 should have proven that. it was 200X faster >>>than the fastest program of today. And it fell into the same problems in the >>>first Kasparov match. >> >>It did not prove it. >> >>Kasparov is a better player than Van der Wiel and it is possible that DB1 could >>win against Van der Wiel. >> >>I also believe that the programs of today have better positional knowledge than >>DB1 and better pruning rules that help them to search deeper so the 200x faster >>may be misleading. >> >>Here is a position(from game 5 of the match) when I believe that DB1 made a >>tactical mistake(I did not try to prove it by a tree but it is my impression). >> >>[D]3r2k1/p4bp1/5q1p/8/3Npp2/1PQ5/P2R1PPP/6K1 w - - 0 1 >> >>White played g3 when I believe that the only move is Ne2 >>The tactics is quite(white has a lot of possibilities in every move) and this is >>the reason that the singular extensions could not help DB1. >> >>I think that it may be interesting to know how much time do programs need to >>find Ne2 and what is the depth that programs of today need to see significant >>difference between g3 and Ne2. >> >>I guess that a lot of program may find Ne2 in some minutes(they will not see >>tactical difference between Ne2 and g3 but they will see a positional >>difference) >> >>I guess that part of them may see a difference of at least 1/2 pawn if you give >>them 3*200=600 minutes on fast hardware(I mean a difference of at least 1/2 pawn >>between their score and their score if they investigate only g3 at the same >>depth). >> >>A difference of 1/2 pawn means that they will not see that g3 is a losing move >>but they will see big positional reasons not to play it. >> >>It will be interesting to do the experiment. >> >>Uri > >Chezzz locks on Ne2 after 44 secs on my machine, and it never considers g3. > >It hasn't found an especially good score, though. -0.20 for white, so I will let >it search for a full 10 hours or so. Thanks I do not say that Ne2 is winning but only that it is probably the only not losing move so there is no problem with score of -0.2. I believe that DB1 could draw the game instead of losing with Ne2 instead of g3. Uri
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