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Subject: Re: Rebel-v/d Wiel on P3 866 MHz

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 07:42:03 01/06/01

Go up one level in this thread


On January 06, 2001 at 10:32:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 05, 2001 at 14:37:49, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 05, 2001 at 14:09:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 05, 2001 at 08:50:43, José Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 05, 2001 at 08:38:07, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 05, 2001 at 08:04:38, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 05, 2001 at 07:50:42, Mark Schreiber wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In the match with v/d Wiel, Rebel is running on P3 866 MHz. Using a faster
>>>>>>>computer would be an improvemnt. Maybe a P4 1.5 GHz. They could also improve
>>>>>>>Rebel to run on dual or multi processor like Junior. The Junior that ran on an 8
>>>>>>>processor at Dortmund would clobber v/d Wiel. At Dortmund, Junior performed at
>>>>>>>Fide 2700.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You are wrong. Van der Wiel enforces games which are highly non-tactically. A
>>>>>>high node/sec won't help here. Deep Junior would have the same trouble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uli
>>>>>
>>>>>I disagree.
>>>>>Programs can find better positional moves when they search deeper.
>>>>
>>>>  But the curve strength/speed in non-tactical positions is almost flat.
>>>>  For examples, if a program doesn't understand weak pawns, a speed improvment
>>>>won't help it unless it can find the loss of the pawn, which turns the position
>>>>into tactics.
>>>>  I understand speed can help sometimes in strategical positions, very few IMO.
>>>>
>>>>  José C.
>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>
>>>Speed is absolutely _not_ going to repair holes in a program's evaluation.  If
>>>it is missing something important (say how to handle blocked pawn positions)
>>>then making it run 10x faster won't help one iota...
>>
>>Deeper search can help to repair holes in program evaluation.
>>
>>It is possible that the program does not understand that a move is not good
>>because the opponent has a positional advantage at small depth but at big depth
>>it can see that the opponent can get a positional advantage that it knows to
>>evaluate.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>OK.. let's be clear here.  If your program doesn't understand forks, a 3 ply
>search will fix that hole.  If your program doesn't understand blocked
>positions, a 50 ply search will repair that hole.  But I don't think a 50
>ply search is going to happen.  Some kinds of missing knowledge can be covered
>by a search (don't realize a passed pawn on the 7th is strong?  a few plies
>will show this although sometimes it takes 10-20 plies to see that the pawn
>is going to cause problems.  Don't realize two connected passers on the 6th are
>strong?  again sometimes 8-10 plies will show this, sometimes it will take
>20+).
>
>The kind of hole being exploited vs Rebel isn't going to be helped by another
>10 plies.

Ed found that Rebel could save the game that it lost against Van dar wiel by
deeper search.

It seems that 1 or 2 more plies than the game are enough to save game 3.

I do not say that it is enough to win the match but it is enough to get better
result.

Uri



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