Author: Amir Ban
Date: 01:34:15 02/03/98
Go up one level in this thread
In response to the Don & Bruce posts, here's my summary based on my notes and other posted opinions. Just to define an important term: I call a line vague if a strong player would not necessarily choose to play it even if he sees it. This applies to 28 (which is arguably correct), but not to 29, which has 3 solutions but is not vague. When vagueness doesn't apply I would add side solutions. ** 11 Nxg4 Amir : no change ** 14 Nd5 Amir : add Nb5 (Nd5 Nb5) ** 16 Rxc5 Amir : You may find this, but it's based on faulty line (drop) ** 17 Rxd5 Amir : add Nf6 (Rxd5 Nf6) ** 19 Rxf6+ Amir : change to Nxe6 (Nxe6) ** 28 Rxf4 Amir : vague or faulty (drop) ** 29 Rgxg6 Amir : add Rxa6 and Rf4 (Rgxg6 Rxa6 Rf4) ** 43 Bxg2+ Amir : add Qxc2 (Bxg2+ Qxc2) ** 51 Bxh2 Amir : vague (drop) ** 60 Bxh2+ Amir : Qh6 is right (Qh6) ** 63 Ncxd5 Amir : Nbxd5 is equivalent (Ncxd5 Nbxd5) ** 68 Bd3 Amir : wrong (drop) ** 71 Qh6 Amir : Kg2 is stronger. Some may argue to leave Qh6 on (Kg2) ** 76 fxg6 Amir : add fxe5 (fxg6 fxe6) ** 81 Qb1+ Amir : Bxc6 is the same trick in a different way (Qb1+ Bxc6) ** 82 exf6 Amir : Was never disputed on CCC. No change ** 84 Bg6 Amir : vague (drop) ** 91 Nc6 Amir : vague (drop) ** 96 Qe8+ Amir : Some versions don't have Nf6+ as solution (Qe8+ Nf6+) Amir On February 02, 1998 at 13:19:49, Bruce Moreland wrote: > >On February 01, 1998 at 18:20:48, Don Dailey wrote: > >>Hi People, >> >>I have gone through all the posts on the ECM test set for the first >>100 problems. Basically we are trying only to correct the problems >>and discover side solutions or cooks. We are throwing out a few and >>changing a few. If I missed someones post please forgive me but this >>is not an easy task. A lot of your comments were weak, ambigious etc, >>so I had to take some guesses. > >Yes. This is not a very good place to do this work, since it isn't >convenient to download all of the pertinent stuff. I'm going to risk >being redundant by commenting on some of these, since it's so hard to go >back and figure out what others have said. > >>DELETE >> >> 14 - most thought it very vague >> 19 - seems to have at least 3 solutions, vague >> 28 - consensous on vagueness >> 63 - conflicting. Positonal and changing solutions. >> 68 - Amir and Bob both want dropped. >> 82 - vague problem. >> 84 - vague >> 91 - too many solutions > >14) Nd5 (the key) wins the exchange for a pawn. Mine finds this >initially in a few seconds, with a score of +0.3 or so. Other stuff >gets in the way but after an hour and twelve minutes mine sticks with >this for good at around +0.6, ending up at +0.73 after four hours. > >19) There is more than one way to win big in this position. > >28) Mine lines Nf6+ gxf6 Rxf4 after an hour, at -0.51. This one stll >might be correct, since Rxf4 is the key, but I haven't let it go for >longer. > >63) Ncxd5 (the key) is +2.6 after 20 seconds, but I haven't run it >longer. > >68) Don't know, only ran it for an hour. > >82) I get exf6 (the key) in 38 seconds +3.36, which replaced the >previous move, Qg3, which had been at +2.56. I let it go for four >hours. The last PV I got was at two hours and eighteen minutes, and was >+6.46. So if this was vague, it's also crushing. > >84) Mine finds Bxg6 (the key) in about a minute and a half, at +2.19, >and still has it after an hour at +2.30. Other moves might also win, I >don't know. > >91) I think there is more than one way to win big here, too. > >>CHANGE >> >> 11 - Change key to (Nxg4) >> 17 - Add Nf6+ as a solution (Rxd5 Nf6+) >> 60 - Change solution to (Qh6) >> 81 - Add Bxc6 as side solution > >I think that, in general, if someone wants to add a new move, they >should either get a really big score or run for a really long time and >end up with a score that is still obviously winning. In some of these >cases, mine gets the proposed new move initially, then switches. > >11) The key is already Nxg4. > >17) No opinion. > >60) No opinion. Mine also selects Qh6. > >81) The key seems to get you into a B vs N ending with an extra outside >passer. I assume that the proposed new move wins a pawn but leaves more >material on. Unless it also leads to a position a strong player (not >us) would like as much, I wouldn't like to add it as a new solution to >anything, since it wouldn't be as good as the original key. But on the >other hand, this isn't a positional test, so perhaps it would be best to >remove it from any test sets that are derived from ECM. This one is >easy, anyway, you'll get either Qb1+ or Bxc6 in a very short time. > >>There are still 4 problems in the first 100 that I cannot resolve. I >>would like 1 more pass at these with more committal decisions. If I >>get no more comments I will just drop them. >> >> >>29 Rgxg6 ; Amir wants Rxa6 as side solution. >>29 Rgxg6 ; Bob thinks Rgxg6 might be best move despite Amirs side. >>29 Rgxg6 ; Ernst thinks Rf4 might be best. >>29 Rgxg6 ; Don says Cilkchess likes Rf4 with score jump > >I think Rf4 might end up better, too, but I only ran it for 3 minutes. > >>43 Bxg2+ ; Amir wants Qxc2 as side solution. >>43 Bxg2+ ; Bob gets solid Bxg2+ and sticks. Amir thinks there is a >>side. >>43 Bxg2+ ; Don says cc2 oscillates between Qxc2 and Bxg2 for an >>hour > >No opinion. > >>51 Rxh2 ; Amir isn't sure it's correct >>51 Rxh2 ; Bob and Amir are both not sure. >>51 Rxh2 ; Don thinks Qc5 might be worth looking at. >>51 Rxh2 ; Ernst get's fail high with Rxh2 thinks best. >>51 Rxh2 ; Don says CC2 likes Qc5 after 1 hour > >I still have Qxc5 after an hour, but I think Ernst's line should get >people looking at Rxh2 for longer, possibly. > >> >>76 fxg6 ; Amir wants fxe6 as side solution. >>76 fxg6 ; Bob seems to believe fxg6 is clearly better than Amirs >>side. >>76 fxg6 ; Ernst agree's to side solution of fxe6 >>76 fxg6 ; Don says fxe6 played by CC2 after 1 hour but fxg6 is >>close. > >fxg6 and fxe6 are both > +5 in a very short time. > >bruce
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