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Subject: Re: Does Fritz6 knows not to evaluate repetitions as a draw?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 09:26:00 01/13/01

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On January 13, 2001 at 11:52:00, James T. Walker wrote:

>On January 13, 2001 at 08:10:47, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>Fritz6 allows Steve Ham to repeat the position and I wonder if Fritz6 knows not
>>to evaluate repetitions as a draw.
>>
>>You can find the game at
>>http://correspondencechess.com/campbell/ham/fr_hambl.htm
>>
>>Steve Ham can repeat the position by Kc8 and get the exact position that was on
>>the board after move 61.
>>
>>I have nothing against Fritz6's move(I think that the move is the only idea to
>>make progress but it seems strange if Fritz6 knows it because usually programs
>>do not know it and Deep Fritz is one of the programs that does not know it.
>>
>>Crafty knows it but Crafty is an exception.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>Hello Uri,
>Because of this post I decided to look at the game.  It is very interesting but
>it brings up some questions.
>Is Mr. Ham getting the PV/analysis from the operator?  It seems according to his
>comments that he is.  If this is true then I'm wondering at what point in the
>game is he receiving the Fritz analysis.  He also seems to be receiving the
>input of others who are following the game.  Is he getting this input in time to
>be useful?
>As to your question I'm not sure how to find the answer.  They have already
>repeated a position at move 64 & 66.  Repeating a position at move 71 equal to
>move 61 would seem harmless also.  I'm sure Fritz will not repeat either
>position again unless there is no choice.  This type of action seems normal for
>programs in endings where they can't find a winning line.  They seem to move
>aimlessly around hopeing to "discover" something that did not show up in
>previous searches.  They usually do this untill the draw is forced or they
>happen upon the right position that puts a win within their search.
>I did see many moves by Fritz which were found after only seconds on my
>computer.  Of course that is not unusual either.  In this ending I have seen
>Fritz hit 34 plies in a few seconds with a score of 0.00 when looking at Blacks'
>move.  However when making the 0.00 move for Black Fritz then goes back to it's
>2.xx score for itself.   I believe Fritz "knows" the worst it can it is draw but
>is programmed to continue looking and "hopeing" for a win.
>Jim

I find that my Deep Fritz evaluates the position as advantage for white and if I
give it a lot of options it evaluates the move of the game as a draw.

Re7+ with Ka6 is the only plan for white to make progress so I do not criticize
fritz6's choice but I am surprised that it can let a repetition without
evaluating the position as a draw(Crafty is the only program that I know that
can play like this).

Uri



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