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Subject: Re: 64-bit processors

Author: Larry Griffiths

Date: 14:48:20 01/18/01

Go up one level in this thread


On January 18, 2001 at 10:15:05, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 17, 2001 at 10:07:42, Larry Griffiths wrote:
>
>>On January 17, 2001 at 00:48:26, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>
>>>On January 16, 2001 at 18:49:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 15, 2001 at 23:29:42, Larry Griffiths wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 15, 2001 at 20:15:17, Ralf Elvsén wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I looked ay the instruction set for the Itanium processor.
>>>>>>As far as I could see there was no instruction to get the first/last
>>>>>>bit set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Can someone with insight in processor design describe the
>>>>>>considerations done by the designers when they decide to
>>>>>>include or to not include such an instruction? (Assuming they
>>>>>>are not chess programmers :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is it possible to quantify how the "trouble" to include
>>>>>>it scales with the number of bits? I.e. is it even less likely
>>>>>>to be found in an 128-bit processor?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ralf
>>>>>
>>>>>I asked this question a while back.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think IA32 instructions might still be supported and maybe the BSF BSR
>>>>>instructions are still available.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe you can verify this.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I actually think that they are not supported if I recall Eugene's comments
>>>>correctly.  It is possible to find which byte is non-zero in a 64 bit word,
>>>>but I think it then requires a 256-entry table look-up to find the set bit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.intel.com/eBusiness/products/ia64/faqs/
>>
>>Again, this seems to indicate binary compatablility with IA32 instructions
>>Terry, but I am still wondering if you have to be in some sort of IA32 mode or
>>if you can just execute the instructions while in IA32 mode.  Intel has always
>>maintained hardware instruction compatability with previous generations and I
>>would hope that IA32 code could use IA64 instructions and registers without
>>doing some sort of mode switch or incurring clock cycle penalties.
>>
>>Larry.
>
>
>Also, don't forget that "binary compatibility" can mean almost anything.  IE
>it is possible that a BSF might generate a trap and end up in some operating
>system code that emulates the BSF.  That would be unusable in a chess engine
>as it would be _way_ too slow...

I would agree with you Robert.  I did some more research and it saw some posts
that said IA32 instructions on an Itanium chip were taking a 33% performance hit
compared to a Pentium III at the same clock speed.  Still, 33% aint bad when the
BSF, BSR instructions execute in one clock cycle assuming that all instructions
only take a 33% performance hit.  Only time will tell.

Larry.



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